The Nation vs Zeigler: Discussion Thread

[Trojan]

Trojan's Raiders Picks

• Round 1, Pick No. 7 - Jalen Carter, DT Georgia
• Round 2, Pick No. 38 - No Trade (Keep 38 and 141), accept Falcons trade 38 -> 44 + 110
• Round 2, Pick No. 44 - O'Cyrus Torrence, RG Florida
• Round 3, Pick No. 70 - Darnell Washington, TE Georgia
• Round 3, Pick No. 100 - Kelee Ringo, CB Georgia
• Round 4, Pick No. 109 - No Trade (Keep 109 + 175 / do not get 104 +203), Adetomiwa Adebaware, DE/DT Northwestern
• Round 4, Pick No. 110 - Dawand Jones, RT The Ohio State
• Round 5, Pick No. 141 - Antonio Johnson, Nickel CB/S Texas A&M
• Round 5, Pick No. 144 - No Trade (Keep 144 + 214 / do not get 135) Cory Trice, CB Purdue
• Round 5, Pick No. 170 - Accept trade (204 + 220 for 170) Christopher Smith, S Georgia
• Round 5, Pick No. 174 - Isaiah Moore, LB North Carolina State
• Round 6, Pick No. 214 - Ivan Pace Jr., LB Cincinnati
• Round 7, Pick No. 231 - Keaton Mitchell, RB East Carolina
  
  
  QB: Jimmy Garoppolo, Brian Hoyer
  RB: Josh Jacobs, Zamir White, Keaton Mitchell
  FB: Jakob Johnson
  WR: Davante Adams, DeAndre Carter
  WR: Jakobi Meyers, Phillip Dorsett
  Slot: Hunter Renfrow, Keelan Cole
  TE: Darnell Washington, Austin Hooper, OJ Howard
  LT: Kolton Miller, Brandon Parker
  LG: Dylan Parham, Jermaine Elumanor
  OC: Andre James, [Parham]
  RG: O'Cyrus Torrence, Netane Muti
  RT: Dawand Jones, Thayer Munford
  
  DE/5tech: Adetomiwa Adebaware, Jerry Tillery
  DT/1tech: Bilal Nichols, Neil Farrell
  DT/3tech: Jalen Carter, Matthew Butler
  DE/EDGE: Maxx Crosby, Jordan Willis, [Malcolm Koonce]
  SLB/EDGE: Chandler Jones, Malcolm Koonce, Luke Masterson
  MLB: Isaiah Moore, Robert Spillane
  WLB: Divine Deablo, Ivan Pace Jr.
  CB: Nate Hobbs, Cory Trice
  CB: Duke Shelly, Kelee Ringo
  Nickel: Antonio Johnson
  FS: Trevon Moehrig, Christopher Smith
  S: Marcus Epps, Jaquan Johnson/Roderick Teamer
  
  P: AJ Cole
  K: Daniel Carlson
  LS: Jacob Bobenmeyer

[Geezy]

22 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

First let me start out by saying I have zero issue with Mayer.  If we were going to go TE I would have gone Washington.  Mayer is better than him right now but Washington has a higher ceiling in every category.  For me there was not an obvious choice so I would have wanted to trade down.  Since we stayed I went with Washington.

Apparently Washington has bad knees, that’s why he dropped so far. 

[Darbsk]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:51 AM, NYRaider said:

I'm hoping Wilson's slow arse first step translates to the NFL but man I would've sprinted to the podium to select Carter. 

Carter was so tempting.............most talented player in the whole draft at a position of dire need............to good to be true isn't it??

I just couldn't take him with my pick based on his off-field stuff and worrying Pro Day. Maybe we are cursed but I just feel with Ruggs we couldn't do it. I just get Darrell Russell vibes (off field) sadly........ all the talent but couldn't work it out.

For the kids sake, I hope he turns it around.

[Darbsk]

This draft has been one for the ages with the number of highly touted guys who dropped...........

Gonzalez, Porter, Levis, Ringo, Mayer, Hooker, Washington, Ika, Dawand Jones, Adebawore, Patterson, Vorhees, Carter, Kuntz, Joseph, Hickman to name some obvious ones.

A lot of guys I'd thought and the consensus was would go higher.

[NCOUGHMAN]

19 hours ago, Geezy said:

Apparently Washington has bad knees, that’s why he dropped so far. 

Explains a lot he never had a smooth stride Imo 

[ronjon1990]

14 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Carter was so tempting.............most talented player in the whole draft at a position of dire need............to good to be true isn't it??

I just couldn't take him with my pick based on his off-field stuff and worrying Pro Day. Maybe we are cursed but I just feel with Ruggs we couldn't do it. I just get Darrell Russell vibes (off field) sadly........ all the talent but couldn't work it out.

For the kids sake, I hope he turns it around.

Carter was entirely off my board. I hope he works out for Philly and gets everything in order off the field. But no matter if he becomes a HoF guy with the all time sack record by year 10 or is out of the league in 3 years, he has absolutely no impact whatsoever on my feelings about the Raiders draft. I basically pretend he doesn't exist, and I can be content with that. If he becomes great, I'll just pretend he was selected before we picked if I need to lol. But we simply couldn't take him. 

[bucksavage1]

I think what people who said we didn’t address the OL or LBare missing out on that Wilson and Mayer are duo skilled players 

 

Wilson is a Edge/DE but will see snaps at LB and even MLB like Parsons was doing with the Cowboys

Mayer will be the main blocking TE which will help the O-line.

 

 

[ronjon1990]

12 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

I think what people who said we didn’t address the OL or LBare missing out on that Wilson and Mayer are duo skilled players 

 

Wilson is a Edge/DE but will see snaps at LB and even MLB like Parsons was doing with the Cowboys

Mayer will be the main blocking TE which will help the O-line.

 

 

I get the sentiment, but I'd honestly rather just let him stick to Edge/DE. He's too big and not fast enough to play LB without being put in a bad spot (unless we're making some big changes to the D and are going to be blitzing LBs a lot more) and I don't wanna see a rookie put into a situation like that. If/when the overall depth on D is proven to have improved, then start playing chess with guys to see what all they can do. 

And unless Jones, Koonce, or one of the new DEs really steps up, I'd rather keep the high potential guys at their natural spots and work outwards from there.

Hopefully we get active with some of the LBs out there and sign a few. Our corps is pretty weak, but there's some value on the market still left that could bring it up to a probable adequate baseline. 

[big_palooka]

19 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Carter was entirely off my board. I hope he works out for Philly and gets everything in order off the field. But no matter if he becomes a HoF guy with the all time sack record by year 10 or is out of the league in 3 years, he has absolutely no impact whatsoever on my feelings about the Raiders draft. I basically pretend he doesn't exist, and I can be content with that. If he becomes great, I'll just pretend he was selected before we picked if I need to lol. But we simply couldn't take him. 

100% agree. Incident aside, Seattle passed on him and they usually take these guys. Detroit, I recall an interview with Dan Campbell in which he spoke with teammates at UGA and found their comments "interesting" but didn't elaborate. They also passed on him.

Has come out post draft that the UGA coach staff wasn't a fan of him and didn't vouch for him in the process. The red flags are everywhere with him. Can't take the risk. If the Eagles don't take him, I wonder how far he slides.

 

[jimkelly02]

14 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

I think what people who said we didn’t address the OL or LBare missing out on that Wilson and Mayer are duo skilled players 

Wilson is a Edge/DE but will see snaps at LB and even MLB like Parsons was doing with the Cowboys

Mayer will be the main blocking TE which will help the O-line.

What?  Yeah not buying what your selling here.  

1)  yes Mayer is a good blocking TE but that doesn’t change the fact we needed to improve at G.  
2) where did you read/hear Wilson is playing MLB? That seems absolutely ridiculous and false.  the only LB he’s going to see is the occasional snaps as stand up 3-4 OLB where he’s rushing the QB.  Why would anyone Place a lengthy DE at MLB?  That would take away his strengths.

[ronjon1990]

14 hours ago, big_palooka said:

100% agree. Incident aside, Seattle passed on him and they usually take these guys. Detroit, I recall an interview with Dan Campbell in which he spoke with teammates at UGA and found their comments "interesting" but didn't elaborate. They also passed on him.

Has come out post draft that the UGA coach staff wasn't a fan of him and didn't vouch for him in the process. The red flags are everywhere with him. Can't take the risk. If the Eagles don't take him, I wonder how far he slides.

 

No telling. 

The Eagles were already loaded on defense, so they were the rare team that could afford to take a black eye on him should it come to that. They've drafted and played FA well enough that 1 first round bust won't move the needle, and they have plenty of vets in place to hopefully brighten him up. 

If Philly passed on him entirely, like "off the board" pass, he might very well have slid to day 3. I'd be really interested to know what teams just wrote him off entirely (and rest assured at least a few did). Regardless of talent potential, there's some teams out there that simply don't have the time nor desire for the potential headaches. 

My gut tells me deep down Vegas, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Seattle, San Francisco, Green Bay, and Houston probably had zero interest in him whatsoever. Vegas couldn't take him for the obvious reasons, Campbell doesn't have time for that sort of potential disruption with what they're successfully doing in Detroit, Pittsburgh and Seattle have dealt with recent headaches and neither Carroll nor Tomlin are gonna waste the energy, San Francisco is just too good at drafting and developing to throw that kind of potential wrench in and cause any issues, ditto for Green Bay, and Houston probably knew he's not someone you put in a rebuilding locker room lacking proven leadership. 

I'm almost positive more teams than that probably wrote him off entirely, or at least wouldn't have bothered until the picks were flyers. The number of red flags with him just can't be understated. Over the last decade, at least, I cannot think of a consensus top 5 talent more likely to be out of the league before the end of his rookie deal. Hope he turns it around, becomes a stud DT and somehow hits FA in like 5 or 6 years for us to potentially get. That'd be great. But 2023 was not a year we needed anything to do with him, and I can't help but believe a lot of teams felt that way. 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

No telling. 

The Eagles were already loaded on defense, so they were the rare team that could afford to take a black eye on him should it come to that. They've drafted and played FA well enough that 1 first round bust won't move the needle, and they have plenty of vets in place to hopefully brighten him up. 

If Philly passed on him entirely, like "off the board" pass, he might very well have slid to day 3. I'd be really interested to know what teams just wrote him off entirely (and rest assured at least a few did). Regardless of talent potential, there's some teams out there that simply don't have the time nor desire for the potential headaches. 

My gut tells me deep down Vegas, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Seattle, San Francisco, Green Bay, and Houston probably had zero interest in him whatsoever. Vegas couldn't take him for the obvious reasons, Campbell doesn't have time for that sort of potential disruption with what they're successfully doing in Detroit, Pittsburgh and Seattle have dealt with recent headaches and neither Carroll nor Tomlin are gonna waste the energy, San Francisco is just too good at drafting and developing to throw that kind of potential wrench in and cause any issues, ditto for Green Bay, and Houston probably knew he's not someone you put in a rebuilding locker room lacking proven leadership. 

I'm almost positive more teams than that probably wrote him off entirely, or at least wouldn't have bothered until the picks were flyers. The number of red flags with him just can't be understated. Over the last decade, at least, I cannot think of a consensus top 5 talent more likely to be out of the league before the end of his rookie deal. Hope he turns it around, becomes a stud DT and somehow hits FA in like 5 or 6 years for us to potentially get. That'd be great. But 2023 was not a year we needed anything to do with him, and I can't help but believe a lot of teams felt that way. 

Sucks to have a massive need at DT for years, finally have a prospect that could change that and he's such a risk. Then again, if he was clean, he probably goes top 5. 

Saving grace for him is landing in Philly with a lot of other UGA guys and vets like Graham, Cox, who can provide him leadership. Going to learn a lot about the guy on his rookie deal. 

[Humble_Beast]

 

 

Round 1, Pick No. 7 - Jalen Carter DT - I would have rolled the diced. We needed someone who could change the dynamic of the defense. DTs are so hard to come by, and I knew Edge was a strength of the team. 

Round 2, Pick No. 38 -  Brian Branch S - (Keep 38 and 141)- I wanted to go BPA and help the defense. I thought Branch was a top 25 prospect and he would have gave a boost to the secondary 

Round 3, Pick No. 70 - Drew Sanders LB- I would have traded up with the Eagles (who had two picks before Broncos). I would have used the pick we used to trade up for Mayer. Sanders would have gave our LB core a real boost. 

Round 3, Pick No. 100 - Dawand Jones T - once he fell to late 3rd, I would have been all over him to boost the talent level on the OL. I also really liked Blake Freeland in the late 3rd

Round 4, Pick No. 104- Jakorian Bennett CB  - I loved this trade up and prospect. This would have been the time to add a CB

Round 5, Pick No. 144 - Noah Sewell LB- I thought he was a 3rd rounder, and would have been all over him in the 5th. 

Round 5, Pick No. 154 - Accept trade (204 + 214  for Seahawks pick 154) Will Mallory TE- I would have played off the strong TE class and added a nice prospect in the 5th

Round 6, Pick No. 214 - Zack Kuntz - TE I would have double dipped on tight ends late. Kuntz and Mallory have alot of potential, would have been interesting to see them coached up. 

Round 7, Pick No. 231 - Jalen Cropper WR- this would have been my Tre Tucker type of pick. Explosive WR, who can also help in the return game 


QB: Jimmy Garoppolo, Brian Hoyer
RB: Josh Jacobs, Zamir White, Brittian Brown, Sincere/Abdullah
FB: Jakob Johnson
WR: Davante Adams, DeAndre Carter
WR: Jakobi Meyers, Phillip Dorsett
Slot: Hunter Renfrow, Cropper
TE: Austin Hooper, Will Mallory, Zack Kuntz, OJ Howard
LT: Kolton Miller, Brandon Parker
LG: Dylan Parham, Jermaine Elumanor
OC: Andre James, [Parham]
RG: Jermaine Elumanor, Netane Muti
RT: Dawand Jones, Thayer Munford

DE/5tech: Chandler Jones, Jerry Tillery
DT/1tech: Bilal Nichols, Neil Farrell
DT/3tech: Jalen Carter, Adam Butler
DE/EDGE: Maxx Crosby, Jordan Willis
SLB: Deablo, Malcolm Koonce
MLB:  Robert Spillane, Noah Sewell 
WLB: Drew Sanders, Luke Masterson 
CB: Nate Hobbs, Tyler Hall  
CB: Duke Shelly, Amik/ Long
Nickel: Bennett / Brian Branch 
FS: Trevon Moehrig, Jaquan Johnson/ Palo
S: Marcus Epps, Brian Branch

post draft I would have looked to sign another DE, and CB

we could have draft 3 defensive cornstones: Carter, Branch, Sanders 

a potential mountain starting OL: James 

two solid TE prospects: Mallory/ Kuntz 

plus more talent on defense: Bennett, and Sewell 

Cropper could have boosted the return game, and put pressure on Renfrow 
P: AJ Cole
K: Daniel Carlson
LS: Jacob Bobenmeyer

Edited May 9, 2023 by Humble_Beast

[Dessie]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:14 PM, Humble_Beast said:

 

 

Round 1, Pick No. 7 - Jalen Carter DT - I would have rolled the diced. We needed someone who could change the dynamic of the defense. DTs are so hard to come by, and I knew Edge was a strength of the team. 

Round 2, Pick No. 38 -  Brian Branch S - (Keep 38 and 141)- I wanted to go BPA and help the defense. I thought Branch was a top 25 prospect and he would have gave a boost to the secondary 

Round 3, Pick No. 70 - Drew Sanders LB- I would have traded up with the Eagles (who had two picks before Broncos). I would have used the pick we used to trade up for Mayer. Sanders would have gave our LB core a real boost. 

Round 3, Pick No. 100 - Dawand Jones T - once he fell to late 3rd, I would have been all over him to boost the talent level on the OL. I also really liked Blake Freeland in the late 3rd

Round 4, Pick No. 104- Jakorian Bennett CB  - I loved this trade up and prospect. This would have been the time to add a CB

Round 5, Pick No. 144 - Noah Sewell LB- I thought he was a 3rd rounder, and would have been all over him in the 5th. 

Round 5, Pick No. 154 - Accept trade (204 + 214  for Seahawks pick 154) Will Mallory TE- I would have played off the strong TE class and added a nice prospect in the 5th

Round 6, Pick No. 214 - Zack Kuntz - TE I would have double dipped on tight ends late. Kuntz and Mallory have alot of potential, would have been interesting to see them coached up. 

Round 7, Pick No. 231 - Jalen Cropper WR- this would have been my Tre Tucker type of pick. Explosive WR, who can also help in the return game 


QB: Jimmy Garoppolo, Brian Hoyer
RB: Josh Jacobs, Zamir White, Brittian Brown, Sincere/Abdullah
FB: Jakob Johnson
WR: Davante Adams, DeAndre Carter
WR: Jakobi Meyers, Phillip Dorsett
Slot: Hunter Renfrow, Cropper
TE: Austin Hooper, Will Mallory, Zack Kuntz, OJ Howard
LT: Kolton Miller, Brandon Parker
LG: Dylan Parham, Jermaine Elumanor
OC: Andre James, [Parham]
RG: Jermaine Elumanor, Netane Muti
RT: Dawand Jones, Thayer Munford

DE/5tech: Chandler Jones, Jerry Tillery
DT/1tech: Bilal Nichols, Neil Farrell
DT/3tech: Jalen Carter, Adam Butler
DE/EDGE: Maxx Crosby, Jordan Willis
SLB: Deablo, Malcolm Koonce
MLB:  Robert Spillane, Noah Sewell 
WLB: Drew Sanders, Luke Masterson 
CB: Nate Hobbs, Tyler Hall  
CB: Duke Shelly, Amik/ Long
Nickel: Bennett / Brian Branch 
FS: Trevon Moehrig, Jaquan Johnson/ Palo
S: Marcus Epps, Brian Branch

post draft I would have looked to sign another DE, and CB

we could have draft 3 defensive cornstones: Carter, Branch, Sanders 

a potential mountain starting OL: James 

two solid TE prospects: Mallory/ Kuntz 

plus more talent on defense: Bennett, and Sewell 

Cropper could have boosted the return game, and put pressure on Renfrow 
P: AJ Cole
K: Daniel Carlson
LS: Jacob Bobenmeyer

Not how it works HB, the idea is to make your picks as they fall. You have looked at how the draft fell and then made your picks. Everybody can be wise after the event. 

[CaribouLou]

16 hours ago, Dessie said:

Not how it works HB, the idea is to make your picks as they fall. You have looked at how the draft fell and then made your picks. Everybody can be wise after the event. 

Also had Drew Sanders who was picked at 67, but picked him at number 70. Didn't realize we could pick players after they were selected and also accept fake trades. I'll keep that in mind for next year lol.