RaidersAreOne Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 https://x.com/fb_filmanalysis/status/1701762384577364306?s=46&t=rfjQOnFxN5Y5dbOW6S1nog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 7 hours ago, big_palooka said: I'm old enough to remember when Khalil Mack was a "bust" because he didn't get a sack in pre-season until the 4th quarter of his 4th game against nobodies. Wilson hasn't played since Nov last year. Missed most of camp. Was raw coming out. He's a project. If he looks like this year 2, then you have beef. I don't know man. Maybe he becomes something. But taking somebody this slow off the ball at 7 do seem a lil crazy. I'm not all into the prospects except qbs. But if he was this slow off the ball in college. I can't get behind this. This franchise ain't been great coaching up 1st rd picks either. I'm hoping for the best, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said: You absolutely hated Carter in the lead up to the draft. You took the car accident situation and put 10 on it to call the kid a POS. No flip flopping after the fact. How the hell do you take what I said and consider it a flip flop? I wouldn't have taken Carter and I stand by that. Saying I wouldn't have taken Wilson either isn't saying I would've taken Carter. Jesus, is anyone in here capable of more than a single minded thought? Say you wouldn't have taken Wilson, so you must have wanted Carter. Say you weren't excited by the Jimmy G signing, you must be a Carrdashian. Say you have no faith in Josh, you must just hate the Patriots. I swear, there's bipolarity, and then there's whatever the heck about half of this forum passes off as reading comprehension above a 3rd grade level. Edited September 13, 2023 by ronjon1990 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 7 hours ago, big_palooka said: I'm old enough to remember when Khalil Mack was a "bust" because he didn't get a sack in pre-season until the 4th quarter of his 4th game against nobodies. Wilson hasn't played since Nov last year. Missed most of camp. Was raw coming out. He's a project. If he looks like this year 2, then you have beef. I'm old enough to remember being told Cle Ferrill was gonna be an 8-10 sack complimentary DE, that Alex Leatherwood was gonna be a star, that Johnathan Abram was gonna improve with coaching and reps, that Damon Arnette was pro ready... And, honestly, both looked better in their roles than Wilson did on day 1. Not saying it's a guarantee he flops, but there's really nothing good that can be said about the pick beyond a hypothetical "high ceiling" at this point. That showing against Denver was.....really bad. Like how was this guy even given a draftable grade he's so far behind the sheer basics bad. I get you want to be optimistic about it, but a first rounder, much less a top 10 pick, shouldn't need that much work to look like he wouldn't struggle to make a European intramural team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 8 hours ago, big_palooka said: I'm old enough to remember when Khalil Mack was a "bust" because he didn't get a sack in pre-season until the 4th quarter of his 4th game against nobodies. Wilson hasn't played since Nov last year. Missed most of camp. Was raw coming out. He's a project. If he looks like this year 2, then you have beef. I'm old enough to remember Al's projector to defend Jamarcus and all the love filled respectful arguments we had about that whole shabang. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I just don’t get the slow get off, if you’ve played enough ball you have to have developed some type of anticipation by now. It’s weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: How the hell do you take what I said and consider it a flip flop? I wouldn't have taken Carter and I stand by that. Saying I wouldn't have taken Wilson either isn't saying I would've taken Carter. Jesus, is anyone in here capable of more than a single minded thought? Say you wouldn't have taken Wilson, so you must have wanted Carter. Say you weren't excited by the Jimmy G signing, you must be a Carrdashian. Say you have no faith in Josh, you must just hate the Patriots. I swear, there's bipolarity, and then there's whatever the heck about half of this forum passes off as reading comprehension above a 3rd grade level. You are a very emotional guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 14 hours ago, NickButera said: I hate to agree with this but i do. Just trying to balance the idea that we took a raw project so high in the draft makes me sick, again. Getting Ferrell flashbacks. Hope he pans out, but also hate to see the same song and dance. Especially since Carter is showing he belongs day 1. I agree. I never like the project guy that high in the draft either. Especially for a team that struggles to develop. I don't see the Ferrel comparison at all. He was a low ceiling player, limited athletically. Wilson is toolsy, just needs coached up. Carter.... it is what it is. He was obviously the best play in the draft. There is just no way you can bank on him not messing up eventually. Catch 22 situation for most teams. Lands in a perfect spot to a team who was in the Superbowl last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 7 hours ago, dante9876 said: I don't know man. Maybe he becomes something. But taking somebody this slow off the ball at 7 do seem a lil crazy. I'm not all into the prospects except qbs. But if he was this slow off the ball in college. I can't get behind this. This franchise ain't been great coaching up 1st rd picks either. I'm hoping for the best, though. I wasn't a fan of his for this reason either. That said, he didn't have an offseason. This seems coachable. He's twitchy, so it seems more processing that anything. Get him with a pass rush guru in the offseason and work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 7 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I'm old enough to remember being told Cle Ferrill was gonna be an 8-10 sack complimentary DE, that Alex Leatherwood was gonna be a star, that Johnathan Abram was gonna improve with coaching and reps, that Damon Arnette was pro ready... And, honestly, both looked better in their roles than Wilson did on day 1. Not saying it's a guarantee he flops, but there's really nothing good that can be said about the pick beyond a hypothetical "high ceiling" at this point. That showing against Denver was.....really bad. Like how was this guy even given a draftable grade he's so far behind the sheer basics bad. I get you want to be optimistic about it, but a first rounder, much less a top 10 pick, shouldn't need that much work to look like he wouldn't struggle to make a European intramural team. Wilson was considered a top 5-10 pick on most boards. The tools are there. The players you mention, had no tools and were over drafted. You are comparing apples to race cars.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 7 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said: You are a very emotional guy. Dodging the question in favor of one-liners again, are ye? Classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Wilson was considered a top 5-10 pick on most boards. The tools are there. The players you mention, had no tools and were over drafted. You are comparing apples to race cars.  Tools? Is there a more vague term that can be used? That's like saying they have "grit" or "it" or "chutzpah" or "swagger". It's the ultimate blanket defense for the indefensible- "Oh but they got tools, man!, tools. Upside." What? He's big? They're all big. He's tall? So was Cle. He's, um, fast? Clearly not.... He's powerful? Didn't see it. He's got burst? Definitely not. He's got moves? Dude literally didn't move lol. He's great at reading plays? Yeah anyone should be able to read a play when they stand there watching for an extra second or two before, you know, actually moving. Saying a guy has the tools is literally the same argument we've been having about Patrick Graham and his results vs his apparent league-wide respect. Every guy who walks onto an NFL field has "tools". Cle had "tools". Alex and Johnathan had "tools". Tim mufuggin Allen made a killing off of having "tools"". They were overdrafted, you say? I don't know man, I was told by an endless array of the Raider Subforum Positivity Commission that Alex Leatherwood was taken in the correct spot, he was "the guy", and no way he lasted to our next pick. I remember being told Cle was a great pick and still a 1st rounder and was a fit. I simply posit, then, that Tyree Wilson was overdrafted. We took an injured guy top 10. Prove he wouldn't have fallen like a bunch of other guys fell on draft day. Prove that someone is 100% guaranteed to take him. Your position is is he was a top 5-10 pick, back it up with facts that we didn't just overdraft a dud. Christian Gonzalez was considered a top 10 pick on most boards. Ditto for a few other guys. I'm old enough to remember Marvin Wilson and DeMarvin Leal being ballyhooed around here as top 5 targets. Or, just say you like the pick but can't actually justify it with anything tangible and leave it at that. It's ok to just have a gut feeling about a prospect- hell, VanS made a whole thing out of his gut feeling on Josh Dobbs years ago and here we are lol. But don't sit there with vague terms like "tools" and unprovable assumptions going all Giuliani on people saying the truth isn't the truth and what you see with your own two eyes isn't real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: Wilson was considered a top 5-10 pick on most boards. The tools are there. The players you mention, had no tools and were over drafted. You are comparing apples to race cars.  What tools do you see? how is he twitchy? please explain  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: I wasn't a fan of his for this reason either. That said, he didn't have an offseason. This seems coachable. He's twitchy, so it seems more processing that anything. Get him with a pass rush guru in the offseason and work on it. Curious if the cj drama effected him cause he didn’t look ready rewatched it last night and he looked lost half the time like he didn’t know the plays. Got pushed down more than koonce. he tried to bull rush their lt once and got shut down completely then he basically useless and looked lost af the rest of the game. Interesting to see him next game he has to improve can’t get worse… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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