2018 Draft Prospects

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

58 minutes ago, IronMike84 said:

Is there a place for Minkah on this team?

I have a very strong impression that is going to be a Ryan Pace problem come draft night!

It's funny how they seem to be in the exact wrong spot in this draft: right in the valley between the top non QB projections and just above the rank where all their needs are.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, IronMike84 said:

Maybe the Giants take a second-tier QB like Luke Falk.

If they don't want a QB fine (not buying it, but fine.)

Then it comes down to:

Barkley, Nelson or Chubb  OR  potentially 3 number 1 picks plus a couple of other picks.  Or 2 number 1's and a 3 or 4 other high round picks.

Kind of a no brainer to me.  Those guys aren't even proven despite their potential. 

I would trade any player on Bears outside of Trubisky for 3 1's and couple of other high round picks in a minute.

 

 

 

 

[Nads786]

1 minute ago, RunningVaccs said:

I have a very strong impression that is going to be a Ryan Pace problem come draft night!

It's funny how they seem to be in the exact wrong spot in this draft: right in the valley between the top non QB projections and just above the rank where all their needs are.

Mikah is a great prospect and worthy of the selection. We can find a fit for him later but having that level of secondary talent is a good thing in today's NFL.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

2 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

Mikah is a great prospect and worthy of the selection. We can find a fit for him later but having that level of secondary talent is a good thing in today's NFL.

I know, but it's just ironic that DB might be our strongest position now.  Jackson looks good, Amos is fine, Fuller and Prince are both good, and there's a whole ton of guys we never hear about as depth, some of whom can play. 

My own big concern with him is that he ends up being a slot corner and it's kind of a waste of his talents. 

[Nads786]

Just now, RunningVaccs said:

I know, but it's just ironic that DB might be our strongest position now.  Jackson looks good, Amos is fine, Fuller and Prince are both good, and there's a whole ton of guys we never hear about as depth, some of whom can play. 

My own big concern with him is that he ends up being a slot corner and it's kind of a waste of his talents. 

I could see him push Prince out of a role in one year or push him to the nickel. We can never predict the future and who gets injured and what holes we show up. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

2 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

I could see him push Prince out of a role in one year or push him to the nickel. We can never predict the future and who gets injured and what holes we show up. 

Good point actually on Prince. 

Can't predict the future, but I can predict our defense gets pretty gassed if they can't push the QB down!  

Out of the non-QBs, I would rank my preference as Chubb>Nelson>Barkley>big drop>Edmunds>Fitzpatrick>Williams

[dll2000]

Drafting late round QB's (not first or high 2nd) is like buying lottery tickets.  You are hoping you find a diamond with a guy who is getting virtually no practice reps.

The teams put nothing into them and hope maybe something emerges in time.  When they draft a guy early he is the guy or going to be.  They are going to give him attention and at least some reps until season starts.

Starter has to play out of his mind to hold off an early pick and sometimes even that isn't enough (see Alex Smith).   

Often the early picks don't work out, but they almost always get a shot and they get coaches attention and time.

Later round picks have to come in during an injury and shine or shine in pre season play enough to turn some heads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

8 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I know, but it's just ironic that DB might be our strongest position now.  Jackson looks good, Amos is fine, Fuller and Prince are both good, and there's a whole ton of guys we never hear about as depth, some of whom can play. 

My own big concern with him is that he ends up being a slot corner and it's kind of a waste of his talents. 

Slot corners are underrated.  Many teams revolve their O around the slot or split TE.  Outside guys are there to keep spacing and safeties back, generally be scary.  Nobody wants to just give 6 points or a huge gain away on one play.  They want you to work down the field and make a mistake along the way.

Current trend of RPO plays, run, pass, option, (cough Bear's new offense) slot play or any player between outside and end man on line of scrimmage is huge.  Really hard to make a run read and get that ball to outside guy as an option before your linemen are downfield.  It's a play and Philly pulled it off a few times in playoffs, but it is not ideal and can lead to pick 6's.

NFL is way behind actually.  High school and college been doing this en masse  for about 7-8 years now.   Was invented long ago, but fads come and go.  HS/College are much more effective with it because the run option of the RPO is often the QB.  One more player for defense to account for and thus much harder to do.  Easier to defend in the NFL, but still hard to defend, plus almost no college or high school QB's can make that outside deep throw on an RPO into a tight window like Foles did.

Defense's are going to have to adjust by having corner/safety/lb hybrids that can cover the slot, rush the passer and/or defend the run.  That's where Fitzpatrick, Honey Badger etc., guys like that come in.   Seattle calls that player a Buffalo Nickel (big nickel).  Old school DC's haven't figured it out yet and why Philly scored so many points last year.  It's a new thing in NFL.  They will catch up.  NFL evolves fast because every body copies everybody else as soon as something works.  Simple Zone reads killed NFL for a few years too.  They are much better at defending those now, but their mere existence added to NFL run games.

It's good for game.  Scoring had gotten stagnet largely because run game had literally zero deception to it.  Single back IZ and stretch as entire run game since Denver popularized it with T. Davis isn't working by itself anymore.  (Cough Fox's Bears).  Teams have their keys and can stop it fairly easily.  Plus can't really cut backside on the RB read anymore and that was a component of its success back in the day.   To succeed in NFL with that scheme you have to have a QB that can throw lasers and read a defense with 7 DBs covering in a known passing situation.  Very hard.   Read plays level the playing field a bit and make defense respect 2 things instead of just playing run or pass as soon as ball is snapped.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Ironically, it was the hated and reviled and stupid Chip Kelly who brought RPO's to the NFL that are now the hottest trend:

Quote

RPOs have been around the college game for decades, but really weren’t used much in the NFL until the Eagles hired Chip Kelly. Andy Reid, never reluctant to steal a good idea, started using them in Kansas City shortly after that, and Doug Pederson, who was Reid’s offensive coordinator, has made them a part of his offense with the Eagles.

And now Matt Nagy is using them with Bears.  About time we were in early on a trend.

Edited March 20, 2018 by dll2000
Added a comment.

[G08]

@dll2000 some damn fine/quality posts out of you lately sir, cheers!

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

Maybe the Giants take a second-tier QB like Luke Falk.

Maybe. Plus there's always this...

2 hours ago, G08 said:

Plus they took Davis Webb recently... not sure how much they like him.

There's a Giants fan in the main news forum who loves Webb, and thinks the Giants might, too. If Webb looks like he has even a decent chance at being a bonafide NFL starter, then if I'm Gettleman, I'm doing a trade (most likely with the Bills) and not thinking twice.

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Rumors this time of year are mostly purposeful lies.  Plus you have keep Eli from quitting as you want him to be a 'bridge' for any young QB since that is the thing to do apparently.  Waste of time to me. Throw them out there and suck for a year I say and get a top pick. Learn by doing, not by watching. I digress.  

If you were Giants GM are you going to turn down a potential franchise QB or 3 number 1's and probably more for one RB, a merely above average pass rusher or a guard?  What's worth more to a team? 

You might consider it if a winning season in 2018 is only way to save your job, but it's dereliction of duty.  

I think taking Barkley might get them 8 or 9 more wins with Eli, but then Eli retires or simply cant effectively play anymore.  He may already be there.  Then what? 

Look what you could have had.  You dont want to he stuck at .500 over paying free agents every year to keep you at .500. 

I'm not defending them taking Barkley, merely pointing out that's what they might do. Unless I felt fairly good about Webb, I'd pick Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/Allen at #2.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

@dll2000 some damn fine/quality posts out of you lately sir, cheers!

Thank you sir.  Avoiding work right now helps. 

I coached little league football (9-14) for about 15 years for fun and learned a lot at clinics.  Along the way I met some old timer great HS coaches and with online tools and a new thing called a telephone I could stay in contact with people who know literally everything about the game.  Older guys a lot like Fangio.   I used to bend their ear all the time.  They love talking football.  You can just call them and they will talk to you for hours on any subject.  They will invite you to their home and cook for you.  They absolutely love it.  

I used to learn all kinds of schemes and concepts from them on white boards or their picture windows going all the way back to Bear Bryant to modern passing concepts (which mostly all come from Don Coryell back in day).  They would cuss me out and call me stupid when I questioned them or got a concept wrong.  Old school stuff, people these days can't handle.  I found it fun and informative.  They have forgotten more than I know.  It's just a side hobby for me.  It was their life work and people like to share accumulated knowledge like that once their done being busy 24-7.  

I won at a lot of titles in some competitive leagues because of stuff they taught me.  I gave it up because I can't take parents anymore.  They are the worst and can literally drive you insane.  Changed so much in such a short time.  Used to be just one or two that were a pain, now its 8 or 9 making problems.  Too many to handle and I have my own family to focus on now.  Ironically, my kids don't even like football.   Life is funny.  

Toying with idea of making a podcast or youtube of some the in depth topics you guys discuss here.  Hard to find the time. 

Not really any good ones outside of Hoge and Jahns which is actually pretty decent.  The official Bears podcast isn't that good, just fluff.

Big radio guys are worthless.  They asked Waddle who Edmunds was a few weeks ago when a caller wanted to discuss the draft and neither he nor Silvy had heard of him at that point.   That seems weird to me because this is their day job and not a hobby.  They should know who top prospects are by mid March.  Mailing it in.   At least they are personable.  Guys on score are just snarky and not likeable as humans.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Huh. Never liked so many posts in a single page before. This forum is great for guys just learning some of the more interesting stuff.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

If you like draft sims, the one I liked best is back, after seemingly going offline

http://draftwired.com:8888/apps/dw

I like first pick and fanspeak, but this let's you trade and is a little more realistic than the others. 

 

[AZBearsFan]

27 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

If you like draft sims, the one I liked best is back, after seemingly going offline

http://draftwired.com:8888/apps/dw

I like first pick and fanspeak, but this let's you trade and is a little more realistic than the others. 

 

I paid the $12 for the full version of FanSpeak this year which lets you do draft trades and do the FA period beforehand. I have more than gotten my money’s worth out of it.