Post-Draft Talk

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Trading up to the 4th round for a backup QB just seems iffy to me. I actually think he's a fine prospect but definitely a cut below guys who are future starters.

Fair. Though I don't really mind going for a QB2 in the 3rd or 4th round. There's a bit of sunk cost, given that the point is that they hopefully never take meaningful snaps, but if they do, they're quickly worth the investment. 

I like him for that role. Frankly, until we have our long term starter in place, I'd prefer a limited guy (like how I floated a potential Mills trade). Any QB can have a streak of games they look good in and, oddly, I want to limit that a bit until we have "our guy". 

I don't want any situation where a backup gets hot and we even for a second think about them as the future. 

O'Connell has a decent floor but relatively low ceiling. He'll be able to push, and keep other guys uncomfortable, but he won't win the starting job outright. If he were to come in around, say, week 7 as the Jimmy joke goes, and go 4-6 or 5-5, that's worth the investment to me. That's honestly the ideal backup for me.

The Jeff Garcia Good Enough to Start type of backups sort of scare me unless you already have a locked in QB1. They tend to push a bit too much and can really throw a wrench in a rookie's development, especially if you have a guy that needs a few tweaks here and there. 

[agarcia34]

Look at this draft nugget. They really liked Paris Johnson. 

5:42 p.m.: Cards GM Monti Ossenfort called Ziegler. Hushed discussion, presumably exchanging potential offers for the pick. Then Ziegler and McDaniels huddled. Having the 12th and 33rd overall picks, to go along with the Raiders’ 38th choice, would be tempting. “We could get [Oklahoma tackle Anton] Harrison at 12,” McDaniels said. The Raiders loved Harrison—not as much as Johnson, but enough maybe to lose the fourth non-QB they love in order to pick up the 33rd pick. They mulled.

The phone went cold for a few minutes. Seemed obvious Ossenfort wanted Paris Johnson. He had to be dealing with Detroit, trying to get ahead of Vegas to ensure getting Johnson.

5:47 p.m.: Witherspoon to Seattle at five. Detroit up. No action on Ziegler’s phone. Not surprising, assuming Arizona was targeting Johnson.

5:50 p.m.: Tinny voice from Draft HQ: “Detroit has traded its pick to Arizona. Arizona is on the clock.” For Vegas, there goes day-one starting right tackle Paris Johnson.

Edited May 1, 2023 by agarcia34

[agarcia34]

They had 4 players rated outside of QBs no particular order

Will Anderson

Tyree Wilson

Paris Johnson

Devon Witherspoon

[agarcia34]

Back in the draft room, after pick 19, Ziegler said, “Josh, you wanna look at trades?” On the board were four players with similar grades: Georgia defensive end Nolan Smith, Maryland corner Deonte Banks, Harrison the Oklahoma tackle, and Arkansas linebacker Drew Sanders. Close to them: Notre Dame tight end Michael Mayer.

But there wasn’t much enthusiasm to deal after Banks and Harrison went off the board. Ziegler made a couple of calls about moving up to fill a hole left by the trade of tight end Darren Waller with Mayer, but never got far—or appeared enthusiastic to do it.

[RaidersAreOne]

@agarcia34 Where are you getting these quotes?

[RaidersAreOne]

30 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Back in the draft room, after pick 19, Ziegler said, “Josh, you wanna look at trades?” On the board were four players with similar grades: Georgia defensive end Nolan Smith, Maryland corner Deonte Banks, Harrison the Oklahoma tackle, and Arkansas linebacker Drew Sanders. Close to them: Notre Dame tight end Michael Mayer.

But there wasn’t much enthusiasm to deal after Banks and Harrison went off the board. Ziegler made a couple of calls about moving up to fill a hole left by the trade of tight end Darren Waller with Mayer, but never got far—or appeared enthusiastic to do it.

Interesting. Sanders went 3 picks before us and we landed Byron Young instead.

[agarcia34]

2 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

@agarcia34 Where are you getting these quotes?

 

[RaidersAreOne]

12 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

 

Yes super interesting. I love hearing behind the scenes stuff like this. 

[Dessie]

Whilst I have underwhelmed by FA, looking at the last 2 drafts l like how we have addressed future holes and got players like White, Wilson, Mayer in before they would be needed to play a frontline role. If they can start now great but that’s how good teams are built. Equally I like how we have focused on the trenches with the picks of Parham, Munford, Farrell, Butler, Wilson, Young, Silvera. 

The Peter King article highlights how we appear to stick to our board, (although the Tucker picks looks an outlier). 

Promising couple of drafts for Ziegler imo. 

[reddevil]

43 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Whilst I have underwhelmed by FA, looking at the last 2 drafts l like how we have addressed future holes and got players like White, Wilson, Mayer in before they would be needed to play a frontline role. If they can start now great but that’s how good teams are built. Equally I like how we have focused on the trenches with the picks of Parham, Munford, Farrell, Butler, Wilson, Young, Silvera. 

The Peter King article highlights how we appear to stick to our board, (although the Tucker picks looks an outlier). 

Promising couple of drafts for Ziegler imo. 

Agree. While we’re all going to have picks we like or don’t more then others, I think it’s clear that there is at least a level of competence with how we are attacking the draft. Certainly in comparison to recent FOs.

One thing that was clear was how much more confident Zeig seemed. In the pressers, how he interacted with the players and just his general demeanour. I also liked how honest he was in his post draft presser admitting that they perhaps took a couple of players earlier than they would’ve liked and that there are still things he and his team can learn to improve. Seems to be growing into the role. 

[NickButera]

22 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Where I agree is the fact that in a lot of ways, the pic is the proverbial "it's OK I fixed it" or potentially, even the "we don't need you" pick. But it doesn't necessarily further the teams progress it just fix is a problem.

where I disagree as I don't think TE should've been a second round pick bottom line we had to third round picks. Tbh I would've been fine with the Georgia pick in the 3rd if it meant getting cam Smith, even if that meant, we ended up getting the same guy in the fourth round. I thought we needed to double down at corner see what is a bigger problem and particularly the passing game in a division where we play two teams that would rather pass than run. And this is all if we let Waller go via trade.
 

if we didn't let Waller go, it would definitely need to be in the third round as a value pic, and while I wouldn't have been as upset as as say the stupid wr vanity pick in the 3rd round, it would still be a problem because if you see the reoccurring theme, it's we pay guys and then we draft guys at high draft picks at the same position as the guys we paid. Which means it was poor evaluation to pay the guys we paid. It creates a scenario where all the resources are being used a few positions. While other positions are being neglected.
 

Like who here would be mad if we didn't get Mike Meyer but we got Trenton Simpson instead. We would all go "Yeah that's a great pick" that actually move the needle and makes the team better by adding actual plus talent to a position, long bereft of it and not just recoups what the team lost.
 

For me, it's centered around the simple fact that offense isn't the problem and particularly TE wasn't a problem until a month ago over something that had nothing to do with football. 

Agreed. It's as simple as who do you think is better 

A: Waller + a stud 2nd round (or 1st round drop) CB/QBOTF prospect/Whoever else you want to slot in here that was available. (Branch, Mingo, Musgrave, Smith, etc)

or 

B: Mayer. 

Ever since Carr left it seems like we've gone full rebuild mode and haven't taken any real steps forward yet. It's just lateral moves, hole pluggings (that we've created) and a youth movement. It's not going to translate to wins this year. and at that point we just have to hope they get another year to try to build for wins. It's almost like this regime is 100% confident they've still got 2-3 years to work regardless of results. And as loyal as Davis is, I just don't think that's true. 

My fear is, they're trying to build up a foundation, but if they don't get another year to work it's all for naught and we're going to start back at zero again next year. 

[big_palooka]

43 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Agreed. It's as simple as who do you think is better 

A: Waller + a stud 2nd round (or 1st round drop) CB/QBOTF prospect/Whoever else you want to slot in here that was available. (Branch, Mingo, Musgrave, Smith, etc)

or 

B: Mayer. 

Ever since Carr left it seems like we've gone full rebuild mode and haven't taken any real steps forward yet. It's just lateral moves, hole pluggings (that we've created) and a youth movement. It's not going to translate to wins this year. and at that point we just have to hope they get another year to try to build for wins. It's almost like this regime is 100% confident they've still got 2-3 years to work regardless of results. And as loyal as Davis is, I just don't think that's true. 

My fear is, they're trying to build up a foundation, but if they don't get another year to work it's all for naught and we're going to start back at zero again next year. 

If Mayer develops into a Jason Witten/Mark Andrews type player, what's the correct answer then?

Edited May 1, 2023 by big_palooka

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[big_palooka]

20 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Teams being lower on Gonzalez was interesting. NE was a good spot for him to land however. 

[big_palooka]

 

Good value overall. Can't hate on this draft at all. Good make up. All culture fits. Team first guys who are known workers.