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2023 Rookie Minicamp / OTAs / Training Camp

Leader

By Leader
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craig

craig

Posted
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12 hours ago, R T said:

Right and really Deguara for the most part doesn't even play the same position as they do. The fact that they are all listed as TE's throws some people off. 

Yeah, for sure. 

Still, I never really know how to think about that.  Because on each play, coach is deciding what "positions" to play.  There will be 9 "positions" used on every snap:  5 OL, 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WR, that's 9, before any style of TE gets allocated.  On average, 1.3 TE's (of whatever style) were used.  

But after that, coach is deciding snap-to-snap what else to use.  3rd or 4th WR?  1 or 2 TE?  Deguara-style, Musgrave style, or Mercedes style TE?  Lazard-style WR, Reed-style, or Toure-style WR?  

Deguara isn't Dillon isn't Musgrave isn't Reed isn't Toure isn't Doubs isn't Melton.  But all of those very different types of guys are competing to be used within MLF's discretionary snaps within discretionary packages.  Lots of "competition" for snaps between guys of widely divergent talents from variant position groups, between the various types of TE's, backs, and the various styles of WR.  

Lewis was used in 41%, Deguara 24%, Tonyan 54%, and Toddler 16% of snaps.  135% composite, basically .  So basically 2/3 versus 1/3 or snaps with two TE versus 1 TE.   Not sure with Davis, but the other three each played distinct TE "positions".  Who knows how MLF will shift the usage of those "positions" this year.  

  1. Maybe less usage?  135% drop to 120% or something?  Maybe OL will be better and need less help, so less need to play protection TE's?  Maybe just nobody to replace the Lewis position, so the use of packages that included the Lewis position will just get stored in the attic for this season?  
  2. Maybe more usage?  Maybe Love will throw seams and middle to TE's more often?  Maybe the OL will be more stable, so MLF will like to use guys who can go out on routes? Or maybe Musgrave and Kraft will just immediately have capacity and be threats within the offense, so MLF will just play them more because they emerge as good, talented players who stress defenses?   The BPA principle?  
  3. Maybe Deguara packages will just get used more often?  Love and Deguara have been practicing together for years and maybe have a connection that Rodgers didn't?  Maybe with more WR talent/speed, MLF will call more 3-WR sets and stretch the field more?  Leaving more space underneath for running plays, with Deguara to block?  Or for Deguara to sometimes catch checkdowns?  Love can run and scramble:  Maybe packages with rollout plays will get introduced into the playbook, and Deguara's movement blocking will get used in those?  Or maybe Love's capacity to roll away from pressure will just give more time for a Deguara to find space and get some throws?  I have no idea.  

But yeah, lots of choices for who MLF puts out as the 10th and 11th guys, so very different guys from different rooms are indirectly competing for those snaps, even if they don't play the same position or even come from within the same position group.  

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craig

craig

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1 hour ago, Leader said:

I love that.  We're a super young, D+D team.  Good future totally depends on some D+D guys actually developing into useful NFL players.  Enjoying some hype and getting some hopes up is part of the fun of being a fan and part of the fun of off-season.  So I'm going to hope-spring-eternal, and for every positive buzz about young players, I'm going to hope that proves real.  And it's not goofy to hope so:  so many players emerge as good players because they developed, so it's not implausible that a 2nd-year guy will prove useful, whether that be a 1st-rounder like Wyatt or a 7th-rounder like Toure.  

But yeah, I think he's kinda fun prospect, they liked what they saw with him last year, and given the room he could get a lot of opportunity.  D+D guy like him is why I don't want to sign any JAG vets.  I think the 10 pounds reference is interesting.  Given the priority on blocking, some extra strength could help for both blocking, and for ST. 

He played 10% last year, 112 snaps.  In a team that will play lots of non-11 sets, even if he holds off the new guys as #4 WR, still not sure how much 4th guy will play.  But given the National Injury League, #4 is always one nick away from being #3.  And while Reed is an exciting pick, he's a rookie, and Packers are rarely too fired up about involving rookies too heavily.  *IF* Toure has added 10 pounds of blocking muscle, it wouldn't shock me if Toure didn't get used over Reed in a number of packages early on?  I think he'll be a fun camp guy to follow. 

I always kinda love the stories of FCS guys making it.  Would be fun if Toure, Watson, and Kraft all ended up being successful NFL guys after playing FCS.  I also think those FCS guys have sometimes played a lot of snaps, so sometimes have more field experience than FBS guys who were blocked early and maybe came out early?  

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craig

craig

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Packers WR coach Jason Vrable said almost every coach on staff has approached him and expressed their amazement in second-round rookie WR Jayden Reed. Vrable told Reed that he reminds him of Randall Cobb in the way he goes about his business.
 
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I love this kind of talk.  But I also admit that Vrable may be a bit of a hyperbole hypemaster!  
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craig

craig

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@ByRyanWood

Luke Butkus says he has no concerns with Josh Myers after struggling in second seasons. He said last year was effectively rookie year for Myers, who only played 7 games as a rookie: "Josh Myers is a hell of a kid, a hell of a player, and we expect him to be here for a long time."

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craig

craig

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@ByRyanWood

#Packers TE John Dunn says early in their acclimation, rookies Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft are more similar in their game than different: "The thing I love about both of them is they're both really big, tall, fast, smart guys."

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More similar than different is interesting.  There might hypothetically be advantages in having two good, similar players.  Perhaps not as much of a giveaway as when a more distinct-usage Lewis-type is in?  

The other thing that strikes me is that every comment on both guys has the "smart" in it.  Gute emphasized/noted that.  Steno did.  Now Dunn does.  That's huge for any player, but especially so for a TE who wants to contribute as a rookie.  

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craig

craig

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@ByRyanWood

Ben Sirmans says AJ Dillon didn't have that type of production either of them wanted for the big, bruising tailback last season. They've talked about it. "I think he's going to come out and respond to that challenge, and have a much more productive year," Sirmans says.

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incognito_man

incognito_man

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2 hours ago, craig said:
Packers WR coach Jason Vrable said almost every coach on staff has approached him and expressed their amazement in second-round rookie WR Jayden Reed. Vrable told Reed that he reminds him of Randall Cobb in the way he goes about his business.
 
=============
I love this kind of talk.  But I also admit that Vrable may be a bit of a hyperbole hypemaster!  

Reed is the truth. Believe.

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