Biggest HOF Snubs?

[Trojan]

The Raiders HOF snub isn't Bo it's Steve Wisniewski. 6 2nd team AP, 2 1st team AP, 8 PB.

Jared Allen is basically Demarcus Ware and should go in soon. Alstott is the FB that should make it not Neal.

[INbengalfan]

22 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

That belief is widely held about the Steelers from the 70s as well. 

I'm reminded of why Lance Armstrong is a cycling pariah while his teammates/rivals are still active in the cycling world  - "we don't hate him because he cheated, we hate him because he was an arse" 

The rumors were basically confirmed about the Steelers (and raiders as well).  But since they won a ton, it was swept under a carpet.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

On 6/24/2023 at 12:11 AM, scar988 said:

Falcons players:

OT Mike Kenn - One of the best LTs of his generation and never got his due because the Falcons were terribad.

LB Jessie Tuggle

LB Tommy Nobis

DE John Abraham - Comparable stats on his career to Michael Strahan. But no championships so no notice.

Don't forget Jeff Van Note. Remarkable career. 

[scar988]

56 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Don't forget Jeff Van Note. Remarkable career. 

Van Note for sure. But I don’t think many people here would have any idea who he is. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

3 hours ago, scar988 said:

Van Note for sure. But I don’t think many people here would have any idea who he is. 

Same could be said for Kenn, Tuggle, or Nobis. Which is why it's important to educate folks

[ShinobiMusashi]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:51 PM, AngusMcFife said:

One thing I heard about Motley is that he was maybe the best blocking back in history. It was like if you had Trent Williams in the backfield and he could either block or run it at 5.7 yards per carry, and he had decent hands. He was an unprecedented weapon.  

He also played LB. 

If you just look at the stat sheet, I can see why someone can be skeptical, but if you learn about the history of the game you can see why Motley was special. 

I think we're grossly missing the point I was trying to make. Nowhere have I denied that Motley was special I just pointed out that if somebody wanted to make a case for Bo Motley is a pretty good comparison. Bo played full MLB seasons then switched over to the NFL and finished the season, he jumped in at week 9 of the 1990 season and blew over the top ranked defense in the NFL against Miami for 100 yards on like 12 carries. Bo was every bit as special as Marion Motley and very parallel case because Motley barely played in the NFL at all. Somebody chimed in and said that wasn't a good comparison but the folks chiming in to defend Motley are saying a lot of the same things people say about Bo, if being special for 1-2-3 NFL seasons gets you in the Hall Of Fame even for a blink of an eye career then all bets should be off, just start putting players in that were popular and interesting and had a cool couple of years. Motley had a cup of coffee in the NFL not a Hall of Fame Career, that is knowing the history. I would say the ones campaigning that he had some all time great NFL career are the ones only looking at the stat sheet, since half his stats took place in a totally different league that not many know much about. Whatever Motley did in the AAFC there are dozens of AFL players that did way more exclusively in that league that aren't getting a sniff of the Hall ever. Motley got into the Hall basically on the same merits that Bo would be put in if it were to happen. He didn't have a Hall Of Fame NFL career but very special player. 

I'm not a fan of the idea of putting Bo in the HOF, not a fan of Boselli being in there or a few others but to say this player or that player can't get in because they didn't play long enough there are way too many guys in there that already defy that logic. Motley being one of them. Bill Willis another, Mac Speedie another. Paul Brown had a lot of pull with the league and had most of his team inducted into the Hall for their 3 years in the NFL(after 4 years of killing amateurs) while AFL guys that put in 8-10 amazing years are totally forgotten about because it was all in the AFL and they didn't have enough prime years after the merger. Thats a gross double standard and a shame. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by ShinobiMusashi

[ShinobiMusashi]

I would also have to debate him being the best blocking back in NFL history, I'm sure there were some really great ones that played more than 30 NFL games and spent over half their career blocking amateurs a quarter of his size. To me I see zero difference in a claim like that for Motley and someone claiming Bo Jackson was the greatest running back that ever played the game. They both had blink of an eye primes and lackluster overall career stats that don't tell their full story. How do we not register this comparison? 

Edited August 4, 2023 by ShinobiMusashi

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

On 6/13/2023 at 12:00 AM, AkronsWitness said:

I will counter and ask are sacks the most overrated stat? Whoever is the sack leader seems to win DPOY, sacks get talked about in HOF discussion, ect. Its like they are more important than anything you can do defensively. I watched Jason Taylor rob Champ Bailey of a DPOY award in 2006 because he had 13 sacks and 9 FFs from it meanwhile Champ had a league leading 11 INTs on top of rarely getting thrown at as a CB, not a S.

Sacks are important though.  They are huge drive killers.  I don't remember the exact percentage, but I once heard that a very high percentage of drives ended up as a punt when a sack occurs.  This could be because sacks often happen on third and long anyway, but still, sacks are huge in terms of changing momentum.

[mse326]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:17 PM, ShinobiMusashi said:

I think we're grossly missing the point I was trying to make. Nowhere have I denied that Motley was special I just pointed out that if somebody wanted to make a case for Bo Motley is a pretty good comparison. Bo played full MLB seasons then switched over to the NFL and finished the season, he jumped in at week 9 of the 1990 season and blew over the top ranked defense in the NFL against Miami for 100 yards on like 12 carries. Bo was every bit as special as Marion Motley and very parallel case because Motley barely played in the NFL at all. Somebody chimed in and said that wasn't a good comparison but the folks chiming in to defend Motley are saying a lot of the same things people say about Bo, if being special for 1-2-3 NFL seasons gets you in the Hall Of Fame even for a blink of an eye career then all bets should be off, just start putting players in that were popular and interesting and had a cool couple of years. Motley had a cup of coffee in the NFL not a Hall of Fame Career, that is knowing the history. I would say the ones campaigning that he had some all time great NFL career are the ones only looking at the stat sheet, since half his stats took place in a totally different league that not many know much about. Whatever Motley did in the AAFC there are dozens of AFL players that did way more exclusively in that league that aren't getting a sniff of the Hall ever. Motley got into the Hall basically on the same merits that Bo would be put in if it were to happen. He didn't have a Hall Of Fame NFL career but very special player. 

I'm not a fan of the idea of putting Bo in the HOF, not a fan of Boselli being in there or a few others but to say this player or that player can't get in because they didn't play long enough there are way too many guys in there that already defy that logic. Motley being one of them. Bill Willis another, Mac Speedie another. Paul Brown had a lot of pull with the league and had most of his team inducted into the Hall for their 3 years in the NFL(after 4 years of killing amateurs) while AFL guys that put in 8-10 amazing years are totally forgotten about because it was all in the AFL and they didn't have enough prime years after the merger. Thats a gross double standard and a shame. 

You know it's the pro football hall of fame, right? Not NFL hall of fame. AAFC and AFL resume count. You can decide what weight you want to give, but they aren't comparable just because you only want to look at NFL games

[Tugboat]

Fred Taylor.

[Kiwibrown]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:11 PM, Tugboat said:

Fred Taylor.

Stephen Alexander. 

Mvp 

100 tds 

[jsthomp2007]

Mike Shanahan had more career wins and Super Bowls than Bill Cowher did.  That has to be a snub, right? 

[AngusMcFife]

12 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Mike Shanahan had more career wins and Super Bowls than Bill Cowher did.  That has to be a snub, right? 

That's an interesting comparison.

Perhaps Shanahan is downgraded in the eyes of voters because:

1) Aside from the 2 super bowl years (7 playoff wins), Shanahan only had 1 playoff win the rest of his 20 year career. Cowher won playoff games in 10 of his 15 years coaching, and had multiple playoff wins in 8 of those years. 

2) Shanahan's win % was only 55% while Cowher's was 62%

3. Shanahan's career effectively ended when he put injured RGIII out on the field in the playoffs and he blew out his knee. I feel that leaves a bad taste in a lot of former players' mouth. Meanwhile Cowher won the Super Bowl in his 2nd to last season. 

 

However, if you look at the impact each coach had on the game, the Shanahan/Kubiak run scheme is one of the great coaching innovations since the 90s.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by AngusMcFife
miscounted

[jsthomp2007]

51 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

That's an interesting comparison.

Perhaps Shanahan is downgraded in the eyes of voters because:

1) Aside from the 2 super bowl years (7 playoff wins), Shanahan only had 1 playoff win the rest of his 20 year career. Cowher won playoff games in 10 of his 15 years coaching, and had multiple playoff wins in 8 of those years. 

2) Shanahan's win % was only 55% while Cowher's was 62%

3. Shanahan's career effectively ended when he put injured RGIII out on the field in the playoffs and he blew out his knee. I feel that leaves a bad taste in a lot of former players' mouth. Meanwhile Cowher won the Super Bowl in his 2nd to last season. 

 

However, if you look at the impact each coach had on the game, the Shanahan/Kubiak run scheme is one of the great coaching innovations since the 90s.  

I know it's number-driven.  But most coaches in the era that Shanahan coached in, said he was the hardest coach to plan and scheme against, including Belichich. I think that has to say something. 

[scar988]

4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

That's an interesting comparison.

Perhaps Shanahan is downgraded in the eyes of voters because:

1) Aside from the 2 super bowl years (7 playoff wins), Shanahan only had 1 playoff win the rest of his 20 year career. Cowher won playoff games in 10 of his 15 years coaching, and had multiple playoff wins in 8 of those years. 

2) Shanahan's win % was only 55% while Cowher's was 62%

3. Shanahan's career effectively ended when he put injured RGIII out on the field in the playoffs and he blew out his knee. I feel that leaves a bad taste in a lot of former players' mouth. Meanwhile Cowher won the Super Bowl in his 2nd to last season. 

 

However, if you look at the impact each coach had on the game, the Shanahan/Kubiak run scheme is one of the great coaching innovations since the 90s.  

That scheme alone should get him into the hall of fame. No one had done a WCO paired with a zone blocking scheme like that with the cuts on the backside until Gibbs and Shanahan got together in the 90s.