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We STILL have to fire Hue Jackson

hornbybrown

By hornbybrown
in Cleveland Browns

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FGK

FGK

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So, translation. Our 3rd youngest rookie QB EVER, threw the second highest % of 15+ yard passes in the entire NFL, behind only a player who played in 6 games, so some SSS there. This despite completing the 7th LOWEST percentage in the NFL on 15+ yard passes. Translation: We were bad at throwing deep, but we did it more than anyone else in the league (when you average out Savage and Watson) and designed our plays to FORCE our QB to throw deep (lots of four verts patterns).

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

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So is there anyone left who is still pro Hue? I think if he wouldn't have thrown everyone else under the bus to explain why he couldn't have possibly won more than 0 games that it would have been easier to support him and he may have more people supporting him, but then again would he even have a job if he took on some of the blame?

I have been anti-Hue since probably week 4 or 5 this year and anti-Kizer for about the same time. I think Hue with an average QB gets us some wins and I think Kizer with an average coach gets us some wins but the two together are a terrible combination.

 

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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27 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

So is there anyone left who is still pro Hue? I think if he wouldn't have thrown everyone else under the bus to explain why he couldn't have possibly won more than 0 games that it would have been easier to support him and he may have more people supporting him, but then again would he even have a job if he took on some of the blame?

I have been anti-Hue since probably week 4 or 5 this year and anti-Kizer for about the same time. I think Hue with an average QB gets us some wins and I think Kizer with an average coach gets us some wins but the two together are a terrible combination.

 

I think some folks are willing to see what Hue can do with a vet qb and more talent, but I don’t think there’s anyone PRO Hue.

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buno67

buno67

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26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

So is there anyone left who is still pro Hue? I think if he wouldn't have thrown everyone else under the bus to explain why he couldn't have possibly won more than 0 games that it would have been easier to support him and he may have more people supporting him, but then again would he even have a job if he took on some of the blame?

I have been anti-Hue since probably week 4 or 5 this year and anti-Kizer for about the same time. I think Hue with an average QB gets us some wins and I think Kizer with an average coach gets us some wins but the two together are a terrible combination.

 

Difference is Huebris wouldn’t make that avg QB better. An avg HC sure as hell would of made Kizer better as time went on. 

Please give us an avg HC, instead of an avg QB

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Mind Character

Mind Character

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Obviously Hue has made numerous critical mistakes (from situational football judgments, play calling, overloading a rookie QB w/ advanced responsibilities, etc)

What is the Context in which Hue's Personal Mistakes Exists & How do they relate to the rest of the league:

I. The Context of the Rookie QBs Over 2 years:

2016 Teams starting rookie QB: Head Coach, Rookie's Record, Player Name (Position Drafted), Did the QB have Big PreDraft Question Marks, Surrounding Offensive Talent

1. Jason Garrett, Cowboys 13-3, Dak Prescott (4th round pick), TOP OL, RB1, WR1, TE1 - top tier talent on offense

2. Jeff Fischer, Rams 0-7, Jared Goff (1st overall), RB1, Terrible OL - No real playmakers outside of RB1

3. Doug Pederson, Eagles 7-9, Carson Wentz (2nd overall), Top OL Best OTs, TE1, TE2, O-Weapon (Sproles) - Avg. Talent w/ top OL and 3 reliable Offensive playmakers

4. Hue Jackson, Browns 0-7, Cody Kessler (End of the 3rd rnd), Bad/Compromised OL, WR2, RB2 - 3 OLs were garbage, one ascending WR, decent RB, no playmakers

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Teams starting QB

1. John Fox, Bears 4-8, Mitchell Trubisky (2nd overall), Above Avg. OL, RB1 Pro-bowler, RB2 weapon - Some reliable playmakers but not much else

2. Bill Obrien, Texans 3-4, Deshaun Watson (12th overall), Terrible OL, RB1, WR1 Hopkins arguably the best in the game, WR2, TE2 - Top playmakers at WR position, good RB

3. Hue Jackson, Browns 0-15, Deshone Kizer (52nd overall), Good OL, Terrible WRs, RB2, Pass catching RB1, Terrible WRs, rookie TE - Inexperienced playmakers until WR1 last 5 gms.

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II. The Context of the Team/Season Context over Last 2 years:

2016 General Issues, Criticisms & +/- Opinions of Hue/Team (Back then not in Hindsight)

  • Passed on Wentz and missed out on Goff
  • Took a risky gamble on RG3
  • Main Criticism The Win-Loss record
  • Pulling Cody Kessler at Half Time Against the Ravens (Is he hurting the QBs Confidence)
  • Gets too pass happy not relying on the run enough
  • Innovative use of Terrelle Pryor
  • Too aggressive in the deep vertical passing game for rookie QB.
  • OL was garbage (Austin Paztor, rookie Drango, Cam Erving)
  • WRs were garbage
  • Positive that he shouldered total blame for results on the team week after week
  • Defense had to get 43 scheme players (Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert) to fit Horton's 34 defense
  • Consensus Opinion: The team was historically devoid of talent, very young, and it was easy to predict historic awfulness

Heading into 2017 Team Changes: The only difference between the 2016 team and the 2017 team literally was Subtracting Joe Haden, Terrelle Pryor, Demario Davis & Adding Kenny Britt, Jason Mccourty, Kevin Zeitler, JC Tretter, & Rookies at key/critical positions...that's it.

2017 General Issues, Criticisms & +/- Opinions of Hue/Team (Back then not in Hindsight)

  • Couldn't get clear QB1 (Trubisky, Mahomes), passed on Watson
  • Put too much on a young QBs plate which makes sense to test his limits, but did not dial it back
  • Made comments about not being good enough and having to "play perfect" further promoting media and fan sentiment that he was blaming the players and not himself
  • Made comments about team decisions shining a light on criticism of the front office
  • Made bad situational football decisions on 4th down
  • Called pass plays on first down and pass plays backed into the endzone despite having a QB that was likely to throw INTs
  • Made shortsighted decisions out of desperation of trying to win
  • Cracked after the first Cincy game, let losing take its toll, started making comments regarding the talent of the roster
  • Defended himself/competence as an offensive coordinator and why there weren't many other runcalls which created fodder for local and national media to write that he threw his RB Crowell under the bus
  • Called some innovative vertical threat games that schemed open David Njoku and RBs running free multiple times in multiple games that the young QB missed repeatedly.

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III. The Context of Other Coaches/Teams & their Seasonal Controversy:

 

Even still the way that I view HCs in the league probably explains why I'm more guarded about my many criticisms of Hue's mistakes than others and don't scream out "Hue must be fired until then all is lost" every chance there is to talk about the Browns.

B/c I watch and read about so many other teams it puts into context what our experience of what we as mostly insular Browns sports community fans think is unique.

W-L record aside:

This year alone the following coaches were embroiled in serious controversy (national and local criticism about their competence and mismanagement of the team) regarding HC issues (i.e., critical situational football errors, blaming/calling out players, playcalling struggles, end of game fatal errors, mismanagement of timeouts, not using personnel correctly, etc)

**** === The coaches that have also had controversy regarding perceived "blaming of players."

Interesting Note: Of these 19 coaches,  7 of them had readily available news stories about clashes or blaming of the Front Office.

1. Andy Reid

2. Pete Carroll****

3. Adam Gase****

4. Hue Jackson****

5. Ron Rivera****

6. Jason Garrett

7. Dirk Koetter****

8, Mike Mularkey****

9. Jay Gruden****

10. Jack Del Rio****

11. Ben Mcadoo

12. John Fox

13. Mike Mccarthy****

14. Chuck Pagano

15. Marvin Lewis****

16. Vance Joseph****

17. Dan Quinn****

18. Bruce Arians****

19. Bill O'brien****

That's over half the league. Those teams' fans stomach the issues b/c they periodically experience a win that washes away the sins.

We never have the chance to be renewed and eased by winning here.

Those other teams have either have veteran QBs or talent/veterans surrounding a young QB (all except Deshaun Watson who was just amazing period)

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IV. A Brief History/Overview of QB Decisions:

1. We wanted Jared Goff (that evaluation was correct),

2. We liked Wentz but not enough to not go analytic trade down (That was a big Misevaluation),

3. Out of the available talents in FA (there wasn't any), we took a calculated risk on 1 of the most talented athletes to ever play the position (RG3) who had amazing heights in the NFL and some injury and coaching clash issues.

4. We selected a hard working, pinpoint accurate, marginal arm strength player in what amounts to the FOURTH (4th) round of the draft (i.e., a compensatory 3rd round pick) w/ no intention to play him. When bashed by media and the league...Hue says trust me.

5. We tried to trade up for Trubiskty (Correct Evaluation data pending), We like and wanted Mahomes (Correct evaluation data pending), We liked but like everyone else except for the Texans passed on Watson (as did the Bears, 49ers, Jets, Jaguars, Chargers, Bengals, Chiefs)- That also so far looks to be a Misevaluation.

6. We selected a 2nd round QB with rare ability and some critical issues

A lot of the things being used as evidence to confirm previously held beliefs actually weren't terrible decisions given the context in which they happened (Cody in the 4th round...RG3 once Goff was outta reach...)

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

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bruceb

bruceb

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4 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

We were bad at throwing deep, but we did it more than anyone else in the league (when you average out Savage and Watson) and designed our plays to FORCE our QB to throw deep (lots of four verts patterns).

Sabotage?

Incompetence?

Sheer stupidity?

Pick one or more and show Hueball the door.

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