Week 2 GDT: Jets @ Cowboys

[Northland]

I'm reading the comments and I agree this game could very well be a match up challenge for Dallas.  No QB likes pressure up the middle.  Outside pressure is terrific, but defensive tackles who can quickly collapse the pocket are even more disruptive to an offenses game plan in my humble armchair QB opinion.  Hopefully Tyler Smith is a go.  The interior of our OL are going to have their hands full.  As I lean toward thinking this game will be a low scoring battle watch it be a shootout.  Nothing surprises me anymore.

[quiller]

I think the stat about time to throw is very interesting and can help deal with the inside pressure situation as well as moving the pocket.  The TE’s have to catch those quick outs though to move the chains.  Pollard and Vaughn can also put a lot of pressure on the edge.  Missing Cooks is a bummer but yes Tolbert can replace for a game or two.   Jets have a real good secondary duo but can we have good depth at WR the injury to Cooks not withstanding.   Hopefully our D can match Buffalo and keep Jets to 13 or under.  

Edited September 14, 2023 by quiller

[Dallas94Ware]

1 hour ago, Northland said:

I'm reading the comments and I agree this game could very well be a match up challenge for Dallas.  No QB likes pressure up the middle.  Outside pressure is terrific, but defensive tackles who can quickly collapse the pocket are even more disruptive to an offenses game plan in my humble armchair QB opinion.  Hopefully Tyler Smith is a go.  The interior of our OL are going to have their hands full.  As I lean toward thinking this game will be a low scoring battle watch it be a shootout.  Nothing surprises me anymore.

Man, it's not just your armchair opinion. Take it from someone who once tried to make a career in this sport - and did, for a little while, even a failed one - pressure up the middle is a QBs worst nightmare.

Now, it is much easier to apply pressure from the edge. That's why the big money goes there on both sides of the ball. Much easier to win one on one than to split a double team. 

But when you have a player able to do so on the regular, like Quinnen Williams can, it makes life very hard on the passer. He is left with no room to step up and deliver the ball, causing delivery and accuracy problems at best. You also take away his main bit of room to throw, possibly causing him to take a sack. He can let you chase him backward, which is a coaches biggest peeve. He could escape towards the sideline, but usually he is just running into the arms of another defender, then. And even if he does find the footing to stand in there, step into a throw and deliver it - he is going to get crushed for it. Down after down, that is tiresome, and the QB starts rushing throws then. 

When the pressure comes from outside, the QB can step back up into the protection and deliver a throw. I mean, if he sees it coming or has the time to go through the throwing motions. 

Some of the best to ever do it have been turned into Rex Grossman look-alikes when the pressure can come down the middle on them. I won thousands and thousands of dollars betting on Justin Tuck and JPP from the inside of the Giants DL vs Tom Brady in not one but two Super Bowls. Terrible matchup for Tom. Joe Montana looked like Joe Shchmoe when he couldn't step up and put some mustard into his shots up the field over the middle, his bread and butter for a decade. Peyton Manning, not known for mobility, his kyrptonite was holding ground on the edge and pressuring the middle, so he couldn't step up, and would be too slow to get to the outside, where a defender was happily waiting to clean up the play.

It is why Aaron Donald singlehandedly transformed the Rams into a perennial contender for the playoffs. It's why the Texans stayed relevant despite a horrid roster outside of JJ Watt and Andre Johnson/DeAndre Hopkins. It's why the Dallas defense of the 90s is the unsung hero of that dynasty era - Marylands inside step and ability to push the pocket inward was a big problem for all of those West Coast clone systems that were so rampant in that era. 

So trust me, it's not just your armchair take - it's real X and O.

[Rtnldave]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:07 PM, Dallas94Ware said:

I'm actually relieved we don't have to play Rodgers, as he usually decimates Dallas with two minutes to go...

But I'm worried that they won't take Wilson seriously. For all of the fun poked at him last year, this is one very gifted passer. He was just more project than groomed professional when he was drafted, and it showed. But he has come a long way, and while he will still have plenty of ups and downs until his career takes the shape I think it can take, he is quite capable of avoiding the pressure and delivering a deep throw to one of his quite talented receivers.

Mix in that roulette style of raw talent at QB with a powerful OL, two very good running backs, and a hell of a defense, and the team could easily sneak a win past Dallas.

If Biadasz doesn't step up his play, it could be a painful day for Dak as well. The guard play will help, but Biadasz can't allow himself to be beat off the snap by a guy with the closing burst of someone like Quinnen Williams. He has to at least match his speed at the point of attack, even if he can't hold it.

It's not a question of this team being better than the Jets. It is. It's the matchup I don't like. The Jets are a very bad matchup for the way Dallas is built. 

A QB capable of avoiding the rush. Ground game capable of winning the game on 50 carries. A defense that can clog lanes and pass rush from the inside. A secondary that doesn't allow much space and tackles very well. All known weaknesses for Dak's style of play, the OL, and the receivers. 

Dak struggles against inside rush

OL struggles against power DLs

Pass rush is voided when it's avoided 

Linebackers are weak, someone has to tackle a runner before a 5 yard gain

Receivers are shifty and do their best work in space, Jets secondary tackles well and doesn't allow space 

....Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I think the Jets could seriously win this game.

Well they better get good against power DLs because they are going to see plenty in Philly 2x and SF.

[Northland]

1 hour ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Man, it's not just your armchair opinion. Take it from someone who once tried to make a career in this sport - and did, for a little while, even a failed one - pressure up the middle is a QBs worst nightmare.

Now, it is much easier to apply pressure from the edge. That's why the big money goes there on both sides of the ball. Much easier to win one on one than to split a double team. 

But when you have a player able to do so on the regular, like Quinnen Williams can, it makes life very hard on the passer. He is left with no room to step up and deliver the ball, causing delivery and accuracy problems at best. You also take away his main bit of room to throw, possibly causing him to take a sack. He can let you chase him backward, which is a coaches biggest peeve. He could escape towards the sideline, but usually he is just running into the arms of another defender, then. And even if he does find the footing to stand in there, step into a throw and deliver it - he is going to get crushed for it. Down after down, that is tiresome, and the QB starts rushing throws then. 

When the pressure comes from outside, the QB can step back up into the protection and deliver a throw. I mean, if he sees it coming or has the time to go through the throwing motions. 

Some of the best to ever do it have been turned into Rex Grossman look-alikes when the pressure can come down the middle on them. I won thousands and thousands of dollars betting on Justin Tuck and JPP from the inside of the Giants DL vs Tom Brady in not one but two Super Bowls. Terrible matchup for Tom. Joe Montana looked like Joe Shchmoe when he couldn't step up and put some mustard into his shots up the field over the middle, his bread and butter for a decade. Peyton Manning, not known for mobility, his kyrptonite was holding ground on the edge and pressuring the middle, so he couldn't step up, and would be too slow to get to the outside, where a defender was happily waiting to clean up the play.

It is why Aaron Donald singlehandedly transformed the Rams into a perennial contender for the playoffs. It's why the Texans stayed relevant despite a horrid roster outside of JJ Watt and Andre Johnson/DeAndre Hopkins. It's why the Dallas defense of the 90s is the unsung hero of that dynasty era - Marylands inside step and ability to push the pocket inward was a big problem for all of those West Coast clone systems that were so rampant in that era. 

So trust me, it's not just your armchair take - it's real X and O.

Pressure up the middle blows things up quickly.  As you point out when it happens there is little time to react.  Should the QB or RB escape the initial push by running outside there will probably be someone waiting for them.  I read that Martin was held out or limited in practice because of a groin issue.  Most likely a precaution. Regardless we need the interior of our OL to really be on top of their game vs the Jets.

[TVScout]

14 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Marylands

You left out Tony Casillas. 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

Jets roster, top-to-bottom, is a lot better than the Giants. But it’s a depressed Jets team led by Zach Wilson. We have no business losing this game.

[Rtnldave]

No Martin and no Tyler Smith. Should be a feast for Jets D line. 

Better hope our defense can counter.

This game looks like a turnover field day and the team with the better kicker wins because both offenses are going to struggle.

[D82]

2 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

No Martin and no Tyler Smith. Should be a feast for Jets D line. 

Better hope our defense can counter.

This game looks like a turnover field day and the team with the better kicker wins because both offenses are going to struggle.

Martin is slated to play more than likely. 

[WizardHawk]

K Zuerlein out for Jets.  

[Rtnldave]

7 hours ago, D82 said:

Martin is slated to play more than likely. 

Let's hope so.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

Even if you can argue that the rest of the rosters are a push, you can’t lose to Zach Wilson and think you’re a contender.

[textaz03]

Hot off the presses, WR Brandon Cooks doubtful for todays game. 

[quiller]

6 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Even if you can argue that the rest of the rosters are a push, you can’t lose to Zach Wilson and think you’re a contender.

Tell that to the bills fans

so hypothetically we have a better D in almost all phases then the Bills.  We also have better special teams.  So in theory Jets should score under 16.  At home can we score more than 16. Bills would have if not for three Allan interceptions. Bills also are very 1 dimensional.  Contain the pass game you contain the offense. We are way more balanced.  Cooks missing could be an issue but Tolbert has been looking good just has to bring it game day like Bell and Thomas did this 

[Northland]

Interesting note on one of the pregame shows about the Jets under Zach Wilson.  If the Jets defense holds teams to 17 points or less the Jets are 6-1 when Wilson starts.  I'm expecting a heavy dose of the run from NY.