A 2008-esque loss, Packers (1-1) fall to the Falcons (2-0) - Week 2 postgame thread

[Mazrimiv]

I'll enjoy watching Robinson a lot more now that it won't be vs GB.  That cut to avoid Savage was pretty sick.

[incognito_man]

9 minutes ago, Leader said:

 

Unless you're Savage in the film room on Monday 

[HighCalebR]

5 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

All part of Love growing into the role, but seeing that one hurts.  This forum would be all over the "Rodgers ignores the middle of the field!" narrative had it been AR who went outside rather than targeting a wide open Musgrave over the middle. 

I don't think anyone says too much if it's a dot against man coverage. More of a problem when it's at the feet or 5 yards beyond a guy he can't take his eyes off all game.

Especially when you see where the safety is on that specific play.

Edited September 20, 2023 by HighCalebR

[incognito_man]

6 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

All part of Love growing into the role, but seeing that one hurts.  This forum would be all over the "Rodgers ignores the middle of the field!" narrative had it been AR who went outside rather than targeting a wide open Musgrave over the middle. 

Eh, safety very clearly moves off Musgrave when Love throws. He only looks wide *** open after Love has already started the throw to Wicks. He correctly read that Mussy was doubled

[Packerraymond]

7 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

I have to admit that after re-watching the defensive debacle vs ATL, I am much more anti-player vs anti-Barry now than I was on Sunday night.  There were some bad situations due to scheme/alignments, but defensive players not doing their job was a far bigger issue in this game.  Particularly on the edge.

It's empty protection and a single high safety. Just a simple two man game. Safety breaks towards Wicks, ball goes to Musgrave. Safety hops in place or breaks on Musgrave, ball goes to Wicks.

Aaron got plenty of unfair criticism on the same type of reads, but he did at times avoid proper reads if they were in the middle of the field.

[craig]

6 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

I have to admit that after re-watching the defensive debacle vs ATL, I am much more anti-player vs anti-Barry now than I was on Sunday night.  ... defensive players not doing their job was a far bigger issue in this game.  Particularly on the edge.

So, this is really dumb and amateur, but what really is the responsibility of OLB on run-plays?  Hold your spot and set the edge, stay on the outside edge of the OT, so that Bijan can't get outside you?  Or are they supposed to be collapsing the tackles inward, and making the pocket smaller?  

I'm thinking that in some of the plays, Gary was going inside, was letting a blocker get outside of him, who then was sealing Gary off while Bijan zipped around outside.  So, Gary should have been more patient, and sealed the edge, and forced Bijan to either run inside the tackles, or else take a longer loop to get around the edge?  

I wonder if the OLB choice to "set the edge" isn't a lot easier with 3-DL line than with 2-DL sets?  I'm thinking it might be hard to be content to just set the edge and force the ball inside, trusting other guys to stop things, if there are o-linemen threatening to displace only two DL.  Doesn't that just tempt Gary to want to go and help, and to leave the edge?  

[craig]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Eh, safety very clearly moves off Musgrave when Love throws. He only looks wide *** open after Love has already started the throw to Wicks. He correctly read that Mussy was doubled

What was down-and-distance on that?  Ball was on the 15, and the safety was on the goal line, 15 yards off of Musgrave, when Musgave burned his man.  Musgrave had a 2-yard lead on his guy and the safety was still 10 yards deeper than him early before the safety re-directed towards wicks.  So *IF* Love hits him early, it's an easy completion and an easy 5-8 yard gain, even if the safety drops him on first contact.   *IF* it was 3rd and 10, not clear that Musgrave would have had space to get 10.  

[incognito_man]

38 minutes ago, craig said:

What was down-and-distance on that?  Ball was on the 15, and the safety was on the goal line, 15 yards off of Musgrave, when Musgave burned his man.  Musgrave had a 2-yard lead on his guy and the safety was still 10 yards deeper than him early before the safety re-directed towards wicks.  So *IF* Love hits him early, it's an easy completion and an easy 5-8 yard gain, even if the safety drops him on first contact.   *IF* it was 3rd and 10, not clear that Musgrave would have had space to get 10.  

I don't know what to tell you. If you watch the play the safety is clearly sitting on Musgrave's route and Love decides to throw to Wicks when he sees that.

[incognito_man]

10 hours ago, squire12 said:

Qb school week 2

 

This offense looks so close to being really really good. Exciting times

[craig]

12 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I don't know what to tell you. If you watch the play the safety is clearly sitting on Musgrave's route and Love decides to throw to Wicks when he sees that.

HaHa sat on lots of throws with 15 yard cushions, and some QB's routinely took the easy 5-10 yard completions that he conceded.  Yes, safety was sitting on it, with a 14-yard cushion.  There was a free and easy completion underneath that cushion, an easy 5-8 yard gain, before the safety could close that cushion.  I'm not disputing what Love saw or what he chose.  

 

[HighCalebR]

1 hour ago, craig said:

HaHa sat on lots of throws with 15 yard cushions, and some QB's routinely took the easy 5-10 yard completions that he conceded.  Yes, safety was sitting on it, with a 14-yard cushion.  There was a free and easy completion underneath that cushion, an easy 5-8 yard gain, before the safety could close that cushion.  I'm not disputing what Love saw or what he chose.  

 

You don't throw medicine balls . You are very wrong here.

Edited September 21, 2023 by HighCalebR

[incognito_man]

3 hours ago, craig said:

HaHa sat on lots of throws with 15 yard cushions, and some QB's routinely took the easy 5-10 yard completions that he conceded.  Yes, safety was sitting on it, with a 14-yard cushion.  There was a free and easy completion underneath that cushion, an easy 5-8 yard gain, before the safety could close that cushion.  I'm not disputing what Love saw or what he chose.  

 

I think Love is currently in a mental spot where he's coached to read the safety and make the decision to throw. He's playing well for a first year starter and reading more nuance into just the positioning of the safety is higher level NFL QB play. I think he can get there with more experience and see in 0.5 seconds what we can see in slow motion, from a birds eye view and repeatedly to make a call on who was open and when on that play

i think the play call was to read to read the safety and go where he doesn't. So his first (and only) read after checking the safety was the corner route.

This is all my guess of course, but I think that's probably where he's at as a QB right now

[craig]

Thanks, Incog, that totally makes sense.  Yeah, made a logical read based on safety, went with it, made a great throw, and should have gotten a PI call.  I wasn't trying to fault Love on the play.  Not at all.  

Just noting that the other option was also available, despite the big-cushion safety sitting on it.  It's actually kinda fun to see some of the replays, and see that there are often more than one good option available on some of our passing plays.  

Whoever posted the clip of that play did it to show how successful Musgrave's move was to dramatically shake the guy covering him.  That observation is well made, and Musgrave's capacity to make moves like that is kinda awesome, regardless of whether the ball was thrown his way on that particular play.  

 

[{Family Ghost}]

Deguara is a waste of space. 

[HeresAGuy]

Sooooo thats why Love doesnt throw it deep......got it