The MVP race

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, adamq said:

I have a +10000 Joe Flacco comeback player of the year ticket. What he has done is starting to become more impressive than coming back from death. Hamlin has shrunk to -400, Flacco is +400

Honestly, I'm coming up blank trying to even think of another CPOTY candidate at this point. OBJ?

Next year is just gonna be another QB award.

[jonnguy2015]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Honestly, I'm coming up blank trying to even think of another CPOTY candidate at this point. OBJ?

Next year is just gonna be another QB award.

Tua

[Soggust]

4 minutes ago, adamq said:

What he has done is starting to become more impressive than coming back from death.

Excellent take lol

[jonnguy2015]

Stafford and Baker too

Just now, jonnguy2015 said:

Tua

 

[adamq]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Honestly, I'm coming up blank trying to even think of another CPOTY candidate at this point. OBJ?

Next year is just gonna be another QB award.

Hamlin, Flacco, Baker, Tua, Stafford, Russ Wilson, Lamar, TJ Watt, Kupp, Minshew in that order according to Draftkings 

[diamondbull424]

One argument that I will make in Lamar’s defense of poor stats… as we saw in this game, the Ravens essentially went very conservative once they went up. Lamar’s stats at the end of the 3rd quarter/beginning of the 4th were basically his stats for the remainder of the game.

Considering the Ravens have only been down in games for something like 1 hour of playing time all season long, that’s not particularly conducive for stat padding, particularly under a conservative coaching philosophy.

Yet even considering that, Lamar has 4,143 total yards which is only 48 yards behind Josh Allen now. Plus Lamar has an ANY/A of 6.74 to Allen’s 6.63… he has this production playing in the best division in the NFL and while I personally have Allen at the top of my MVP conversation with Lamar, I think similar to the Heisman some of it comes down to who has the greater Heisman moments and who has that iconic Heisman reel. As it stands, I think Lamar has given the NFL more of those moments this season.

Beyond Jackson and Allen, I’d argue Myles Garrett and (if they make the playoffs) TJ Watt above Tyreek and CMC. I’d have my rankings probably something like:

1a. Lamar Jackson
1b. Josh Allen
3. Myles Garrett
4. Matt Stafford
5. Dak Prescott
HM- TJ Watt

While I would likely have Tyreek and CMC battling it out for OPOY. Personally I think Tyreek is having the superior season between the two. He’s got like 1/3 the touches as CMC and yet only trails him by 276 yards. I also can’t help but be more afraid of Tyreek than I was of CMC.

Lastly when I watch the Dolphins offense, Tyreek is the biggest threat night in and night out, whereas with the 49ers you could argue CMC as the biggest threat, but you could similarly argue it’s Deebo, Kittle, or Aiyuk in any given game on any given drive.

[August4th]

I'd give it to Hill or CMC. Annoyed this award has become who's the best QB on a winning team award. I wish the NFL did awards like the NBA or NHL

[stl4life07]

Right now its Lamar but it seems to change week to week now. 

 

[Nabbs4u]

6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Lastly when I watch the Dolphins offense, Tyreek is the biggest threat night in and night out, whereas with the 49ers you could argue CMC as the biggest threat, but you could similarly argue it’s Deebo, Kittle, or Aiyuk in any given game on any given drive

As opposed to Miami on any given drive with Waddle, Mostert, Achane?

Both offenses are loaded with talent, SF most definitely goes through CMC.

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

As opposed to Miami on any given drive with Waddle, Mostert, Achane?

Both offenses are loaded with talent, SF most definitely goes through CMC.

I’m not sure what your point is. I didn’t claim Miami didn’t have talent on the offense. So that’s a Strawman.

I claimed that of the two offenses, Tyreek is easily the most nuclear threat on his offense as compared to his contemporaries. Which is not debatable.

Waddle, Achane, and Mostert, how many pro bowls and/or All Pro teams have they been on?

Conversely Kittle was a top 3 TE in the NFL before CMC for a reason… and only injuries kept derailing him (similar to CMC at the end of his Panthers tenure). Both Deebo and Aiyuk are superior WR options to Waddle, Aiyuk being the 5th best WR in wins above replacement in the league.

The 49ers have far more threats offensively that can be factors in the deep, intermediate, and short passing attack that you absolutely cannot key in on CMC as THE threat.

Whereas Mostert is a great player, no question, but defenses can’t key in on him because they’re deathly afraid of Tyreek changing the complexion of the game with an explosive play. Tyreek is #1 in wins above replacement at WR. He’s the guy that defenses have to account for first within his offense.

With the 49ers CMC is 4th highest in explosive plays within his offense behind Aiyuk, Deebo, and Kittle while Hill has more explosive plays than Mostert, Achane, and Waddle combined.

Then we factor in which is the more important position between WR and RB and compare each season historically amongst their counterparts and CMC is probably on pace for a top 10-15’ish RB season, while Hill is on pace for a top 5-10’ish WR season.

So again, I currently have Tyreek as #1 in my OPOY rankings for these reasons.

Beyond that, bringing this back to the MVP conversation… the positional value, impact, leadership, and dominance of Myles Garrett with him leading a unit that has carried the Browns offense for portions of the season, a historically great defense, and have them in contention for having the second best record in the AFC is quite bonkers.

He is absolutely carrying a greater load on his team than CMC is on his… and he’s done more to impact his team than IMO even Tyreek has done on his. The 49ers and Dolphins without CMC and Tyreek are still good offenses, the Browns defense without Garrett? I’m not saying it wouldn’t be good, but it would go from historically great to probably just above average, probably not a top 10 unit.

[General Tso]

Did Lamar really win this award or did Purdy lose it?

[incognito_man]

29 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’m not sure what your point is. I didn’t claim Miami didn’t have talent on the offense. So that’s a Strawman.

You literally said Tyreek is the Dolphins top weapon every game lol

There's no strawman

[incognito_man]

Lamar is barely top 10 in total TDs for QBs. Hard to give it to him. 

Gonna come down to how Lamar, Tua, Purdy and Dak finish their last two games. .

Josh Allen, CM and Tyreek still alive as well if things play out in their favor.

Wide friggin open with two games left.

 

Exciting

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, General Tso said:

Did Lamar really win this award or did Purdy lose it?

It's an interesting question that needs option c - Mike MacDonald mugged Brock Purdy for 2+ hours and while Brock was getting beat down, Lamar waltzed in and took the award. 

[CP3MVP]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Lamar is barely top 10 in total TDs for QBs. Hard to give it to him. 

Gonna come down to how Lamar, Tua, Purdy and Dak finish their last two games. .

Josh Allen, CM and Tyreek still alive as well if things play out in their favor.

Wide friggin open with two games left.

 

Exciting

It would be like Peyton in 2008 where he didn’t lead in any real category lol.