The Michigan/Sign Stealing Thread

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

This is totally legal, you cant record or pre-scout games to steal signs. 

Correct, but it goes against the “rogue coach” or Harbaugh “not knowing” argument and statement and is another example of how they’ve willfully broken rules in place since at least 2020. What he’s doing pictures isn’t against the rules, it’s that he’s not a random rogue grad student. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

9 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

This is totally legal, you cant record or pre-scout games to steal signs. 

The article clearly lays out the potential problem:

Stealing an opponent’s signals during a game or even from television broadcasts is quite common in college football and is not against NCAA rules. However, the NCAA’s investigation is more focused on how Michigan and Stalions gained information on their opponents to learn such signals.

If the school learned information through in-person scouting of future opponents’ games, that violates a near 30-year-old NCAA rule. If the school learned information through the use of recording or video devices, that violates another NCAA bylaw.

Edited October 20, 2023 by BobbyPhil1781

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Correct, but it goes against the “rogue coach” or Harbaugh “not knowing” argument and statement and is another example of how they’ve willfully broken rules in place since at least 2020. What he’s doing pictures isn’t against the rules, it’s that he’s not a random rogue grad student. 

But this guy can't be on Michigan's sidelines and at another game stealing signs, so he until he's caught doing this at a game UM is not playing, Harbaugh can still hide behind a statement that he's unaware of any "illegal" actions occurring. This still proves nothing other than they have a coach whose job it is to look at the other teams sideline and try to decipher their calls. If other teams are well aware of this, they should've been using this against Michigan for years with dummy signals that have their meanings changed for the Michigan game. Michigan would stop doing this if it burned them on the field, and it should've a long time ago. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

But this guy can't be on Michigan's sidelines and at another game stealing signs, so he until he's caught doing this at a game UM is not playing, Harbaugh can still hide behind a statement that he's unaware of any "illegal" actions occurring. This still proves nothing other than they have a coach whose job it is to look at the other teams sideline and try to decipher their calls. If other teams are well aware of this, they should've been using this against Michigan for years with dummy signals that have their meanings changed for the Michigan game. Michigan would stop doing this if it burned them on the field, and it should've a long time ago. 

You're under the assumption this is the sole person doing this. Not only that, if Michigan has a noon game in AA and OSU plays at night, it's a pretty quick trip to Columbus to get a seat for the game. Let's not pretend California is in the picture yet. Even private jets will get someone to another area in less than an hour at times.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

But this guy can't be on Michigan's sidelines and at another game stealing signs, so he until he's caught doing this at a game UM is not playing, Harbaugh can still hide behind a statement that he's unaware of any "illegal" actions occurring. This still proves nothing other than they have a coach whose job it is to look at the other teams sideline and try to decipher their calls. If other teams are well aware of this, they should've been using this against Michigan for years with dummy signals that have their meanings changed for the Michigan game. Michigan would stop doing this if it burned them on the field, and it should've a long time ago. 

The smoking gun isn’t other B1G coaches, it’s that a gambling institution is going to burn it down.

And yeah, if they find the GA student who relayed that to that guy, it’s absolutely a smoking gun because now there’s a link and chain of command.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

You're under the assumption this is the sole person doing this. Not only that, if Michigan has a noon game in AA and OSU plays at night, it's a pretty quick trip to Columbus to get a seat for the game. Let's not pretend California is in the picture yet. Even private jets will get someone to another area in less than an hour at times.

I'm not under the assumption of anything, other than the photos of this guy mean absolutely nothing as far as "evidence" goes. I'm 100% sure Michigan is probably doing exactly what they're being accused of. I'm 100% sure they're one of dozens. It just doesn't bother me at all as any competent coach should be mixing up signs and signals all year long, if you're not, another team is going to take advantage. 

[MWil23]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staffer-eyed-center-elaborate-scouting-scheme-sources-say
 

Even though Harbaugh said he had no knowledge of the alleged scheme, pursuant to NCAA Bylaw 11.1.2.1, a head coach is "presumed to have knowledge of what is occurring in his program and therefore, can be responsible for the actions of his staff and individuals associated with the program."

Earlier this year, the NCAA "removed the rebuttable presumption from head coach responsibility, making whether the head coach promoted compliance and/or monitored the program relevant to penalty determinations only."

What is crucial to the NCAA case isn't what Stalions did while breaking down television copies of games to learn and decode opponents' signals. It's whether or not illicit methods were used, which are alleged to include opponent scouting in different venues and was outlawed by the NCAA nearly three decades ago as a cost-cutting measure to bring more equity to the sport.

Sign stealing also violates NCAA rules if a team uses electronic equipment to decipher signals and relay the information to players and coaches. According to the 2023 NCAA football rule book, "any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."

The allegations against Michigan appear to transcend the normal coach griping about opposing coaches stealing signals, as the depth of the allegations -- and the Big Ten's on-record affirmation of an investigation -- hint at something much more significant.

 

…Don’t shoot the messenger here. They’re also investigating his computer and if there’s so much as a single email to any other coach on that staff or a previous staff, it’s going to burn it all down.

[NateDawg]

I am with Ruskie on this.

I think the only appropriate measure to stop Harbaugh from running amok here is the death penalty for Michigan.

[BobbyPhil1781]

18 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm not under the assumption of anything, other than the photos of this guy mean absolutely nothing as far as "evidence" goes. I'm 100% sure Michigan is probably doing exactly what they're being accused of. I'm 100% sure they're one of dozens. It just doesn't bother me at all as any competent coach should be mixing up signs and signals all year long, if you're not, another team is going to take advantage. 

You're just looking at pictures and not reading the article? Ok

[BobbyPhil1781]

17 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Don’t shoot the messenger here. They’re also investigating his computer and if there’s so much as a single email to any other coach on that staff or a previous staff, it’s going to burn it all down.

Remember earlier in the year when a guy got busted for accessing restricted email accounts on campus? What are the odds these are tied together? I'm going to say very slim but when I read "computer" it popped back in my head

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

You're just looking at pictures and not reading the article? Ok

"Ohio State staff members knew of the issue ahead of their game against the Wolverines last season. The staff “changed things up” ahead of the game to combat the signaling issue, one support member told Yahoo."

 

Wow almost like this is a non-issue if you do your job.

[BobbyPhil1781]

7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

"Ohio State staff members knew of the issue ahead of their game against the Wolverines last season. The staff “changed things up” ahead of the game to combat the signaling issue, one support member told Yahoo."

 

Wow almost like this is a non-issue if you do your job.

Wow, it's almost like you can't comprehend the potential rule violations and you're just in here typing nonsense lol. They've been explained to you numerous times. 

[NateDawg]

Remember folks: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Harbaugh is the bad guy here.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Remember folks: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Harbaugh is the bad guy here.

Let’s remember that the same people advocating to fire Jim Tressel over not forwarding an email in regards to players getting free tattoos have gone very quiet about failure to monitor a coach on staff, potentially multiple coaches.

[RuskieTitan]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Let’s remember that the same people advocating to fire Jim Tressel over not forwarding an email in regards to players getting free tattoos have gone very quiet about failure to monitor a coach on staff, potentially multiple coaches.

That's because those people are hypocrites.