QB Options 2024

[bucksavage1]

I think when it is all said and done we miss out on the top 6 QBs by pick 13. We signed Minshew for insurance in case. 
 

Bears, Commies, Pats, Giants , Vikings and Broncos are all after QBs. The latter 3 could all trade up 

 

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 Worse, I think AP is just dumb enough to make a yolo trade for Daniels if he can because he recruited him. I personally hope Telesco doesn't fall for the 'ol banana in the tailpipe. Or better yet, let him go bust in Washington at 2 and don't tempt Vegas to gamble.  

I endorsed giving AP a shot. 

I also said my biggest worry with him was trying to be more worried about clout in the locker room and buddying up with players. 

I understand that Jayden Daniels has some enticing talent and, hey, maybe he makes us eat crow and terrorizes the league for the next 15 years. But if Pierce swings some big trade up and  we take Daniels, I'm 100% convinced he should be let go after the 2024 season regardless of the result for the simple fact that he will have lucked into Daniels being that good. It wouldn't be because they scouted Daniels objectively and came to that conclusion, it will be Pierce wanting his boy come hell or high water- and that will fail in the long run. 

[Ryno]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I endorsed giving AP a shot. 

I also said my biggest worry with him was trying to be more worried about clout in the locker room and buddying up with players. 

I understand that Jayden Daniels has some enticing talent and, hey, maybe he makes us eat crow and terrorizes the league for the next 15 years. But if Pierce swings some big trade up and  we take Daniels, I'm 100% convinced he should be let go after the 2024 season regardless of the result for the simple fact that he will have lucked into Daniels being that good. It wouldn't be because they scouted Daniels objectively and came to that conclusion, it will be Pierce wanting his boy come hell or high water- and that will fail in the long run. 

It's still possible that they believe he's the guy based on scouting and the connection is just a bonus/offers more insight - lucking into a franchise QB > no franchise QB

[Steins Gate]

12 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Both have skills, but do they translate to the NFL is the question. 

Daniels - took 5 years to breakout. Did it with a top tier Oline and two first round WRs. Takes to many sacks bailing from the pocket early, which Oline hates. His pass percentage when moved off spot is 20%. A 20% tuck and run rate. NFL average is 57%. Contrast that to Penix at 71% who still looks to throw when off his spot, but he doesn't get a lot of pressure because of an elite Oline. 

Along with that (and this is where people missed on Justin Fields), his pressures turn into sacks at a high rate:

 

 

This tells me two things. He doesn't want to stay in the pocket when pressured. And he's liable to take a sack trying to tuck and run. 

Daniels has a high bust rate depending on where he lands imo. He'd benefit from dropping in the draft to a better team. Washington, New England, I think he bust rate. 

Worse, I think AP is just dumb enough to make a yolo trade for Daniels if he can because he recruited him. I personally hope Telesco doesn't fall for the 'ol banana in the tailpipe. Or better yet, let him go bust in Washington at 2 and don't tempt Vegas to gamble. 

I once made the comparison of Daniels to Kenny Pickett. Both played 5 years on college and both took 5 years to break out. In retrospect, and to be fair to both those QBs, we don't know all the circumstances that led to that. All we know as fans are the player's stats and whatever stories get told to us.

Now with that said, Daniels' tendency to take extra sacks and inaccuracy when moved off his spot is concerning. Once NFL defenses get tape on him, he is going to struggle until he overcomes those things. Hopefully he does.

Edited April 4 by Steins Gate

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Ryno said:

It's still possible that they believe he's the guy based on scouting and the connection is just a bonus/offers more insight - lucking into a franchise QB > no franchise QB

Nobody is going to convince me that AP that unbiased- chiefly because he objectively isn't. That on its own is ok. His bias leading us to lacking into a franchise QB would be neat. 

But he ain't good enough of a coach to let his biases dictate things to that degree, not with what type of move we'd have to make to move up high enough for Daniels to start with. 

I ripped McDaniels and Zeigler as well for a similar issue- they put us in a rough spot by tipping their hand like morons with Carr (and ultimately Renfrow too) by making it clear they had no intention in bringing them back. 

I was not opposed to moving on from either guy. The way it went down was reckless bs, however, as we've seen abject failures like Sam Darnold and Carson Wentz, etc fetch decent returns- and even Carr detractors will admit Carr is at least better or on par with those 2. Instead, we got zilch out of it and anyone without the smoothest of brains knew that was going to be the case before any of the nitty gritty even played put because they tipped their hand early. 

Jayden Daniels likely goes top 5. He's doing so regardless of whether AP was even a HC in the NFL. But AP's love affair with him tipped the hand because he just couldn't help himself- and now whatever we would need to cough up for him is going to be much greater than what someone else would because teams have that information and know they can try and put the screws to someone.fanboying for their boy. He might as well have published our official draft board on Twitter in that case, along with a sticker reading "Hi guys, I know he's going top 5 so can someone with a top 5 pick please please pretty please trade with us? XOXO AP+JD4Ever XOXO."

Making an amateurish, rookie mistake like that can be overlooked if it doesn't actually cost us anything. The moment that sort of mistake occurs and actually costs us something, it's a liability. I for one was clear that while I supported going with AP, he needed to prove himself capable. Publicly gushing over Jatden before draft season started was strike 1. Continuing to do so when deals are in the midst of being struck is strike 2. Acting on it would be strike 3. And if Daniels winds up being a great player, match him with a good O-minded HC that isn't a reckless amateur, and come out ahead. 

 

[big_palooka]

7 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I endorsed giving AP a shot. 

I also said my biggest worry with him was trying to be more worried about clout in the locker room and buddying up with players. 

I understand that Jayden Daniels has some enticing talent and, hey, maybe he makes us eat crow and terrorizes the league for the next 15 years. But if Pierce swings some big trade up and  we take Daniels, I'm 100% convinced he should be let go after the 2024 season regardless of the result for the simple fact that he will have lucked into Daniels being that good. It wouldn't be because they scouted Daniels objectively and came to that conclusion, it will be Pierce wanting his boy come hell or high water- and that will fail in the long run. 

I'm going to reserve judgement until draft day when we know what's happened. I would hope Telesco, a Polian disciple, would be the voice of reason. I don't see a conservative guy like Telesco, getting a 2nd chance, crumbling to the pressure of rookie HC. 

If Champ was the GM, I'd venture a guess he'd go all in on what AP wants. Telesco seems more measured. Time will tell.

[big_palooka]

57 minutes ago, Steins Gate said:

I once made the comparison of Daniels to Kenny Pickett. Both played 5 years on college and both took 5 years to break out. In retrospect, and to be fair to both those QBs, we don't know all the circumstances that led to that. All we know as fans are the player's stats and whatever stories get told to us.

Now with that said, Daniels' tendency to take extra sacks and inaccuracy when moved off his spot is concerning. Once NFL defenses get tape on him, he is going to struggle until he overcomes those things. Hopefully he does.

I have a real problem with QBs who drop their eyes and look to run when pressured. They often run themselves into sacks (Fields). The Bears Oline got a ton of flack, but it was more on the QB than anything. 

Which would be another layer to the AP/Daniels thing. AP hired Getsy and surely Getsy can't be excited about the prospects of Daniels who is a rich man's Fields. 

[Steins Gate]

14 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I have a real problem with QBs who drop their eyes and look to run when pressured. They often run themselves into sacks (Fields). The Bears Oline got a ton of flack, but it was more on the QB than anything. 

Which would be another layer to the AP/Daniels thing. AP hired Getsy and surely Getsy can't be excited about the prospects of Daniels who is a rich man's Fields. 

This is one of the reasons why I favor pure passers and gunslingers over dual threat QBs.

BTW, I liked Fields more than Daniels as a prospect, because he didn't run as much in college. But Fields didn't pick up the pro game as quickly as I hoped.

Edited April 4 by Steins Gate

[big_palooka]

16 minutes ago, Steins Gate said:

This is one of the reasons why I favor pure passers and gunslingers over dual threat QBs.

BTW, I liked Fields more than Daniels as a prospect, because he didn't run as much in college. But Fields didn't pick up the pro game as quickly as I hoped.

Same. Which is why McCarthy is my QB 1. He plays within the structure of the offense and wins from the pocket. He can handle pressure, processes quickly and make any throw. But, he's athetlic and can make plays out of structure as well. Eyes always downfield looking to throw first before scrambling. His accuracy on the run is terrific. 

 

Williams - looks to bail to often and play hero ball which worked for him in college. I question him as a pocket passer. 

Daniels  - I covered him. Forgot to mention his reluctance to throw over the middle. 

Maye - Also tends to bail and makes highlight throws out of structure. I want him to be more sound in the pocket for his size.

Penix - I like him in the pocket, but his production and accuracy dip when he's forced off his spots. 

Nix - I love his game, ability to adapt to any offense. Wish he had more arm. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Same. Which is why McCarthy is my QB 1. He plays within the structure of the offense and wins from the pocket. He can handle pressure, processes quickly and make any throw. But, he's athetlic and can make plays out of structure as well. Eyes always downfield looking to throw first before scrambling. His accuracy on the run is terrific. 

 

Williams - looks to bail to often and play hero ball which worked for him in college. I question him as a pocket passer. 

Daniels  - I covered him. Forgot to mention his reluctance to throw over the middle. 

Maye - Also tends to bail and makes highlight throws out of structure. I want him to be more sound in the pocket for his size.

Penix - I like him in the pocket, but his production and accuracy dip when he's forced off his spots. 

Nix - I love his game, ability to adapt to any offense. Wish he had more arm. 

 

Such a small sample size for jj tho hard to say definitely imo

[raidr4life]

8 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Nobody is going to convince me that AP that unbiased- chiefly because he objectively isn't. That on its own is ok. His bias leading us to lacking into a franchise QB would be neat. 

But he ain't good enough of a coach to let his biases dictate things to that degree, not with what type of move we'd have to make to move up high enough for Daniels to start with. 

I ripped McDaniels and Zeigler as well for a similar issue- they put us in a rough spot by tipping their hand like morons with Carr (and ultimately Renfrow too) by making it clear they had no intention in bringing them back. 

I was not opposed to moving on from either guy. The way it went down was reckless bs, however, as we've seen abject failures like Sam Darnold and Carson Wentz, etc fetch decent returns- and even Carr detractors will admit Carr is at least better or on par with those 2. Instead, we got zilch out of it and anyone without the smoothest of brains knew that was going to be the case before any of the nitty gritty even played put because they tipped their hand early. 

Jayden Daniels likely goes top 5. He's doing so regardless of whether AP was even a HC in the NFL. But AP's love affair with him tipped the hand because he just couldn't help himself- and now whatever we would need to cough up for him is going to be much greater than what someone else would because teams have that information and know they can try and put the screws to someone.fanboying for their boy. He might as well have published our official draft board on Twitter in that case, along with a sticker reading "Hi guys, I know he's going top 5 so can someone with a top 5 pick please please pretty please trade with us? XOXO AP+JD4Ever XOXO."

Making an amateurish, rookie mistake like that can be overlooked if it doesn't actually cost us anything. The moment that sort of mistake occurs and actually costs us something, it's a liability. I for one was clear that while I supported going with AP, he needed to prove himself capable. Publicly gushing over Jatden before draft season started was strike 1. Continuing to do so when deals are in the midst of being struck is strike 2. Acting on it would be strike 3. And if Daniels winds up being a great player, match him with a good O-minded HC that isn't a reckless amateur, and come out ahead. 

 

It was the fact they gave Carr the NTC is what really did them in. Tipping their hand would of still had bidders for him, but they gave Carr all the control.

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Such a small sample size for jj tho hard to say definitely imo

Agreed. He should probably have stayed in school until he's 24 like these other guys. Maybe transferred to a program that lets him throw 20 screens a game to pump those stats up some too. Joking of course, but I like that he's shown the skills to be a top 10 QB at 20 unlike these guys who took 5 years to build their stock. 

I saw more from him in the pocket, layering throws in the middle of the field than the rest of this class. He's excellent out of structure as well. 

 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Agreed. He should probably have stayed in school until he's 24 like these other guys. Maybe transferred to a program that lets him throw 20 screens a game to pump those stats up some too. Joking of course, but I like that he's shown the skills to be a top 10 QB at 20 unlike these guys who took 5 years to build their stock. 

I saw more from him in the pocket, layering throws in the middle of the field than the rest of this class. He's excellent out of structure as well. 

 

 

He’s intriguing but if you’re in 2 yr win now window would he be your first choice?

[101Raider]

Daniels is super exciting, but dang that kid takes some serious kill shots. I’m genuinely worried he has a trajectory that mirrors RG3… Has a really good  rookie season then gets mired in injuries and eventually disappears. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

7 hours ago, 101Raider said:

Daniels is super exciting, but dang that kid takes some serious kill shots. I’m genuinely worried he has a trajectory that mirrors RG3… Has a really good  rookie season then gets mired in injuries and eventually disappears. 

Pennix reminds me of rg3 actually except a smarter version hopefully