Darbsk Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: It’s all a crap shoot jj could never develop daniels could be this years stroud You’re right about the possibilities but we’re basically talking short term over long term aren’t we? Or high ceiling over high floor? High floor guy would be able to come in and start straight away at a reasonable level but high upside guy might take longer but be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 10 minutes ago, Darbsk said: You’re right about the possibilities but we’re basically talking short term over long term aren’t we? Or high ceiling over high floor? High floor guy would be able to come in and start straight away at a reasonable level but high upside guy might take longer but be better. And the whole notion of "win now" makes no sense. What rookie QB comes in and unseats Mahomes in the AFC West? Not to mention the rest of the QBs in the AFC. It's not reasonable. Draft the guy that gives you a window of 10-12 years. Who care about winning now if that happens? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 20 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I agree with pretty much all of this. I think the issue with Nix is that I don't see the elite playmaking/arm talent to see him become a top 10 QB in the NFL. And if we're not getting that I don't think that's worth drafting until the 2nd round or later (would be happy to get Nix in the 40s but I suspect he will go top 20). Nix strikes me as that type of QB that is just good enough to be in the 12-15 range of QBs, and will have that random year or two where he's flirting with top ten and where he's borderlining on like 18-22 and on the hot seat. A really good team, he'd do just fine. He'd probably tear things up in San Fran or Green Bay or KC or Baltimore or Dallas or Miami. Like he'd probably legit inflate himself into top 8 talk on one of those squads in a plug-and-play situation. But the really good teams aren't looking at him. He's not good enough to see good while a team is building around him. If it makes sense, he's a guy I would absolutely trade a 3rd or maybe even a 2nd for to, say, Chicago in 3 years if we had a juggernaut roster and just needed a QB. I think he's that guy- the cherry on top if you will. But I don't think he's a potential franchise guy. Sort of like a Tannehill maybe? Regarded and respected, but never the "identity" of his team. Edited April 8 by ronjon1990 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 This right here: This right here. Raiders have a WR to elevate a QB. Need to hit on QB, then look to add successor to Adams in the upcoming years. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 hours ago, Darbsk said: You’re right about the possibilities but we’re basically talking short term over long term aren’t we? Or high ceiling over high floor? High floor guy would be able to come in and start straight away at a reasonable level but high upside guy might take longer but be better. Basically just age cause they’re all unknowns hell rattler could end up being the best lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: And the whole notion of "win now" makes no sense. What rookie QB comes in and unseats Mahomes in the AFC West? Not to mention the rest of the QBs in the AFC. It's not reasonable. Draft the guy that gives you a window of 10-12 years. Who care about winning now if that happens? Nobody has a magic crystal ball on who that guy is… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: This right here: This right here. Raiders have a WR to elevate a QB. Need to hit on QB, then look to add successor to Adams in the upcoming years. Yep. That’s why I’ve never been keen on trading Adams. The Raiders have a great WR1,2 and a promising TE. So they aren’t lacking for weapons rn. Draft a QB and build the trenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Chali21 said: Yep. That’s why I’ve never been keen on trading Adams. The Raiders have a great WR1,2 and a promising TE. So they aren’t lacking for weapons rn. Draft a QB and build the trenches. Adams has one year of truly elite play left and this team is not a contender. If we don't hit on a top QB and he has Stache or AOC throwing to him all year his trade value will plummet as will his stats. Right now he could fetch a pick at end of the 1st, if his stats fall off from last year and he's one year older, his trade value will drop hard. This team has many holes and needs an influx of young talent. Adams does nothing for our SB chances this year.... nothing. There will be value at end of round 1 for WR, CB and Oline. We need to get younger and put the pieces in place for a young QB to flourish when we pull the trigger on one. I would not mind coming out of round 1 with a stud Cb and tackle... Edited April 9 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 17 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Sort of like a Tannehill maybe? Regarded and respected, but never the "identity" of his team. I like the Tannehill comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 (edited) 12 hours ago, Chali21 said: Yep. That’s why I’ve never been keen on trading Adams. The Raiders have a great WR1,2 and a promising TE. So they aren’t lacking for weapons rn. Draft a QB and build the trenches. The way I see the roster: + strong playmakers (one older WR) + strong DL ( could use one more ) + two good / solid Lb for our 2LB sets + good young starting DBs ( could maybe use one more CB) ————— 2 glaring needs - OL - only have 3 starting OL and no depth - QB Edited April 9 by Humble_Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Hey guys, hope you've all been well!! I'm warming up to Penix at 13. His main knocks are 1) Injury Prone (Dude hasn't been injured in two years) and 2) Doesn't scramble (this was the knock on Stroud). Penix is the best pure pocket passer in the draft behind Maye IMO. Don't get me wrong.. don't ever think he'll be Stroud or a Superstar, but can be a Top 8-10ish type of QB IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Penix is going in round 2. Take that to the bank. He was seen as a round 2 pick the entire process, runs a 4.5 at a pro day and now everyone is overvaluing him because of it. He doesn't play at that speed mind you. Taking him at 13 is the equivalent of taking Clelin Ferrel or Alex Leatherwood. Terrible value. Gruden isn't the GM any longer to make this dumb of a pick thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 44 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Penix is going in round 2. Take that to the bank. He was seen as a round 2 pick the entire process, runs a 4.5 at a pro day and now everyone is overvaluing him because of it. He doesn't play at that speed mind you. Taking him at 13 is the equivalent of taking Clelin Ferrel or Alex Leatherwood. Terrible value. Gruden isn't the GM any longer to make this dumb of a pick thankfully. I’m not sure it would be that level! No one was talking about Ferrel or Leatherwood being picked anywhere near where we took them. There are as many pundits who believe Penix is being under rather than overvalued and that he should be picked early in the draft and ahead of the likes of McCarthy. And there’s plenty of mocks that have him going 13 - even Daniel Jeremiah’s. No one was mocking those goons to us as no-one in their right mind thought it was possible for a franchise to take them that high. That’s not the case with Penix. Plus, it’s the nature of the QB position and gamble you take. Because, what if? What if your roll of the dice pays off… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 6 minutes ago, reddevil said: I’m not sure it would be that level! No one was talking about Ferrel or Leatherwood being picked anywhere near where we took them. There are as many pundits who believe Penix is being under rather than overvalued and that he should be picked early in the draft and ahead of the likes of McCarthy. And there’s plenty of mocks that have him going 13 - even Daniel Jeremiah’s. No one was mocking those goons to us as no-one in their right mind thought it was possible for a franchise to take them that high. That’s not the case with Penix. Plus, it’s the nature of the QB position and gamble you take. Because, what if? What if your roll of the dice pays off… I'm exaggerating some, but that is how I see him as prospect. Everything I've heard is the pundits are higher on him than the scouts and GMs. They have him as 2nd or 3rd round pick. And I read some coaches like him more than the GMs. So all it takes is one coach to override the GM and there you go. If you're rolling the dice on a 24 year old injury riddled one QB who thrived on an all star cast, you get what you deserve. You simply don't take QBs like him 13 overall. Not when higher end talent is going to be pushed down. It would be desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On 4/8/2024 at 2:53 PM, big_palooka said: And the whole notion of "win now" makes no sense. What rookie QB comes in and unseats Mahomes in the AFC West? Not to mention the rest of the QBs in the AFC. It's not reasonable. Draft the guy that gives you a window of 10-12 years. Who care about winning now if that happens? Why’d you keep AP if you don’t think you can win now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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