757-NINER Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Fureys49ers said: Im of the thought process to go and get Cousins and take another guy in the midrounds. Someone mentioned earlier Ryan Finley of NC State, should be fun to watch him and Lamar Jackson compete tom. I've always been a fan of Riley Ferguson from Memphis and Mayfield from Oklahoma (would love to see what him and Shanahan could do together) but those guys might be going a little earlier than I'd like to take a QB at assuming we land Cousins. Too many needs else where to be taking a QB early with the signing of Cousins and drafting Beathard in the 3rd last year. Give me Harold Landry with our 1st, a WR and OG/C in the 2nd and I'll be very pleased. Then maybe we can look QB but I'd still like to see a CB and another OL added before one personally. It's not because of anything I've seen from Beathard during the preseason or believe Cousins will play into his late 30's but more so no matter who is playing QB for us we need to help them out as much as possible, whether that be adding talent around him on offense, protecting him with a better OL or improving our defense so we're not asking him to win a shoot out every week. So what happens if we don't get Cousins?? I'm not banking on Cousins being here next year which is why I'm all in favor of taking two QBs, if Lynch and Shanny agree. Not remotely sold on Beathard's spot on the roster being safe either, going forward. 3rd rounder or not, that was essentially a pick made to appease Shanny due to the lack of quality QBs he felt were there in this last draft. I don't believe that has any bearing on what Shanny might want/covet from this year's crop. And we have no way of knowing if Shanny is at all impressed by what he's seen so far from Beathard. I don't believe him making the roster over Barkley speaks to his future here. There's certainly potential there but if kid comes along with even more potential, I don't see Lynch or Shanny passing on it just because Beathard is in the fold. And I'd gladly take Armstrong, Jr from Kansas or Ejafor from Wake over Landry right now. I haven't been overly impressed with Landry thus far this year. Thought he would be unlockable this year but he really hasn't jumped off the screen thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, 757-NINER said: So what happens if we don't get Cousins?? I'm not banking on Cousins being here next year which is why I'm all in favor of taking two QBs, if Lynch and Shanny agree. Not remotely sold on Beathard's spot on the roster being safe either, going forward. 3rd rounder or not, that was essentially a pick made to appease Shanny due to the lack of quality QBs he felt were there in this last draft. I don't believe that has any bearing on what Shanny might want/covet from this year's crop. And we have no way of knowing if Shanny is at all impressed by what he's seen so far from Beathard. I don't believe him making the roster over Barkley speaks to his future here. There's certainly potential there but if kid comes along with even more potential, I don't see Lynch or Shanny passing on it just because Beathard is in the fold. And I'd gladly take Armstrong, Jr from Kansas or Ejafor from Wake over Landry right now. I haven't been overly impressed with Landry thus far this year. Thought he would be unlockable this year but he really hasn't jumped off the screen thus far. I like the kid from Wake Forest a lot as well. I can just envision Landry being a beast at the LEO/SAM role. My point wasn't so much that Beathard is the answer in any shape, way, or form. And I agree with of sorts about his selection in the 3rd round of last years draft. If Cousins does not come to us next year than I think where we go with our 1st is very likely in the direction of a QB. FA starts March 9th, draft late April, more than enough time to "recover" from the disappointment of not getting Cousins. Either way I'm happy because we are addressing the QB situation. I just prefer the Cousins route because it frees up what will probably a high draft pick for another position of need and believe that Cousins in Shanahan's system will give us a good QB for the next 5-6 years. Edit : I missed you mentioning using two draft picks on QBs this year. I can't say that I'm a fan of that route either as it obviously uses two picks at the same position when, regardless of how we feel about Beathard, we just used a 3rd rounder on one last year and have many more holes to fill and positions needing talent then to use 3 draft picks in 2 years at the same position. This isn't 3 DL in 3 years type of deal where we can shuffle them around and get them on field at the same time, only 1 QB is on the field at once which I'm sure you are aware of. I get that we don't have a QB and by taking two this year we are giving ourselves the best chance at landing one for the future but we also have a team with no real future at WR, need interior OL badly, desperately need a pass rusher, could use CB help and may be looking for a starting caliber Safety and RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 5 hours ago, 757-NINER said: Yeah its pretty good crop of QBs. Even the guys slated to go in the lower rounds have flashed potential. Which is why I'm hoping we draft two of them. Couldn't hurt IMO. One with the first pick. The other a mid-late round guy. Exactly like the Skins did with RG3 and Cousins, though I prefer both have similar skill sets that fit Shanny's offense. Depends on. What beathard has to offer. But in general I agree with the idea of taking two shots at a qb if you're a team that needs one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Fureys49ers said: I like the kid from Wake Forest a lot as well. I can just envision Landry being a beast at the LEO/SAM role. My point wasn't so much that Beathard is the answer in any shape, way, or form. And I agree with of sorts about his selection in the 3rd round of last years draft. If Cousins does not come to us next year than I think where we go with our 1st is very likely in the direction of a QB. FA starts March 9th, draft late April, more than enough time to "recover" from the disappointment of not getting Cousins. Either way I'm happy because we are addressing the QB situation. I just prefer the Cousins route because it frees up what will probably a high draft pick for another position of need and believe that Cousins in Shanahan's system will give us a good QB for the next 5-6 years. Edit : I missed you mentioning using two draft picks on QBs this year. I can't say that I'm a fan of that route either as it obviously uses two picks at the same position when, regardless of how we feel about Beathard, we just used a 3rd rounder on one last year and have many more holes to fill and positions needing talent then to use 3 draft picks in 2 years at the same position. This isn't 3 DL in 3 years type of deal where we can shuffle them around and get them on field at the same time, only 1 QB is on the field at once which I'm sure you are aware of. I get that we don't have a QB and by taking two this year we are giving ourselves the best chance at landing one for the future but we also have a team with no real future at WR, need interior OL badly, desperately need a pass rusher, could use CB help and may be looking for a starting caliber Safety and RB. Meh, I understand we have holes. Every team does. But I'm not the type that feels we need to plug every hole in one off-season. That's just not realistic. I'm in favor of taking two QBs in this draft because this is the draft to do it. It's a deep, talented class. So yes, I'm in favor of taking a franchise guy with our first, than maybe a guy with upside, that could use some development in the mid to late rounds. Drafting a QB is such a crapshoot, I'm willing to spend two picks at the position to hedge our bets. We have some holes that need to be filled. But I think ppl look at our record and think we're totally desperate for talent at numeroue positions. I don't see it that way. We're the youngest team in the league, with alot of young players playing significant snaps/roles. We had more rookies make our 53 than any other team in the league. Call me crazy but I feel alot of our perceive talent issues are just youth issues. We have alot of young guys that just have to play more consistent. And that just comes with more time and patience than most fans want to allow for right now. I think we definitely need a talent upgrade at the interior O-Line and QB position. And we sorely need that edge rusher at DE to balance out our interior core of DeFo and Thomas. But everywhere else I feel we just need more consistency. We need young guys to grow and mature into starting roles they may have been prematurely thrust into due to the to a lack of talent/depth we have. And I expect those players to progress and be better moving forward, so the need to replace them won't be as urgent as it may seem right now....just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I get what you're saying @757-NINER and agree to a certain degree. I'd add CB and WR to your list of needs as well for certainties. Not gonna lie though, if we take two QBs this upcoming year I'll be pretty bummed at the wasted pick we used to take Beathard last year but could deal with it if we find "our guy" at QB. Now if we signed Cousins, then took another QB in the mid to late rounds of this years draft to compete with Beathard then I could live with it. I surely don't expect all our deficiencies to be addressed in one offseason, this will be year 2 now of the complete rebuild and I'd like to see another step taken in addressing those needs, not multiple picks used at the same spot where more often than not only 2 players are being carried into the season anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 11 hours ago, Fureys49ers said: I get what you're saying @757-NINER and agree to a certain degree. I'd add CB and WR to your list of needs as well for certainties. Not gonna lie though, if we take two QBs this upcoming year I'll be pretty bummed at the wasted pick we used to take Beathard last year but could deal with it if we find "our guy" at QB. Now if we signed Cousins, then took another QB in the mid to late rounds of this years draft to compete with Beathard then I could live with it. I surely don't expect all our deficiencies to be addressed in one offseason, this will be year 2 now of the complete rebuild and I'd like to see another step taken in addressing those needs, not multiple picks used at the same spot where more often than not only 2 players are being carried into the season anyhow. I think we have enough at WR to have a very potent offense. We just have young guys in prominent roles that need to be more consitient. Players like Goodwin, Kittle, and Robinson just have to be more consistent and make the plays when they present themselves. Both Goodwin and Kittle are first time starters at this level and it shows. Now I think we could use more depth/talent@WR but I don't consider it a pressing need. Plus, I view WR as a position we can easily remedy in free agency. You upgrade the QB position, WRs will line-up to play in Shanny's offense. At CB, I'd like to add another long, rangy CB with athleticism but again, we have players that I like in Robinson and Johnson that just simply have to be more consistent. Alot of the woes in the secondary have been because Ward missed all of TC and is still learning the nuisances of a new position, on the fly. Like that TD pass to Fitz last week. That was on Ward, not Robinson. This scheme is dependant on the FS to be rangy and smart enough to diagnosis plays quickly and react. Ward needed camp, probably more than anybody because of the new scheme and new position. He's just a beat too slow in critical situations, recognizing where to be. Also, the LBs in zone coverage havent played with the proper discipline and anticipation to defend the intermediate routes, which is hurting us getting off the field on 3rd downs. This is why I said in pre-season the first month of the season would be brutal until guys found their groove and in these new schemes and began to play with confidence, having had some valuable game time reps to build off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowledge Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I was on the Fournette bandwagon last year and the Saquon Barkley bandwagon is just getting started Sign Cousins draft Barkley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Knowledge said: I was on the Fournette bandwagon last year and the Saquon Barkley bandwagon is just getting started Sign Cousins draft Barkley Haha I'd love to add Barkley, he's a freak talent and if we are picking in the top 2 right now looks like a for sure top 2 talent. I just don't see Shanahan and RB Coach Turner all of a sudden changing their ways, they've always believed and have successfully taken mid to lower round guys and turned them into studs. The earliest I think a RB has been drafted on a Shanahan coached, obviously not as HC but as OC, was Tevin Coleman at ATL who went in the 3rd. But I love Barkley, he's a beast who could change an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said: Haha I'd love to add Barkley, he's a freak talent and if we are picking in the top 2 right now looks like a for sure top 2 talent. I just don't see Shanahan and RB Coach Turner all of a sudden changing their ways, they've always believed and have successfully taken mid to lower round guys and turned them into studs. The earliest I think a RB has been drafted on a Shanahan coached, obviously not as HC but as OC, was Tevin Coleman at ATL who went in the 3rd. But I love Barkley, he's a beast who could change an offense. I feel like Barkley is the guy that Cleveland needs to draft. They can't get that running game going in the least. I know that they wouldn't pass on a quarterback for Barkley, but if they believe that Kizer is the guy moving forward, they should really give consideration to drafting Barkley. Crowell is not a good football player, Duke Johnson is a wide receiver in a running backs' number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Barkley would be nice for the Browns. If they don't go QB with the first pick, Barkley makes an awful a lot of sense. They likely won't go with one of the top pass rushers, so it comes down to QB or a special talent in Barkley. I guess they could take a OT, but a top 2 pick on a RT? Meh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, 757-NINER said: I think we have enough at WR to have a very potent offense. We just have young guys in prominent roles that need to be more consitient. Players like Goodwin, Kittle, and Robinson just have to be more consistent and make the plays when they present themselves. Both Goodwin and Kittle are first time starters at this level and it shows. Now I think we could use more depth/talent@WR but I don't consider it a pressing need. Plus, I view WR as a position we can easily remedy in free agency. You upgrade the QB position, WRs will line-up to play in Shanny's offense. At CB, I'd like to add another long, rangy CB with athleticism but again, we have players that I like in Robinson and Johnson that just simply have to be more consistent. Alot of the woes in the secondary have been because Ward missed all of TC and is still learning the nuisances of a new position, on the fly. Like that TD pass to Fitz last week. That was on Ward, not Robinson. This scheme is dependant on the FS to be rangy and smart enough to diagnosis plays quickly and react. Ward needed camp, probably more than anybody because of the new scheme and new position. He's just a beat too slow in critical situations, recognizing where to be. Also, the LBs in zone coverage havent played with the proper discipline and anticipation to defend the intermediate routes, which is hurting us getting off the field on 3rd downs. This is why I said in pre-season the first month of the season would be brutal until guys found their groove and in these new schemes and began to play with confidence, having had some valuable game time reps to build off of. See Goodwin has been a starter while he was in Buffalo, maybe not for every game but it's not as if this guy never saw the field. He's just never stayed healthy in his 5 year career and now just reportedly had his 4th concussion in 14 months, on top of his droppsies problems which don't appear to be going away anytime soon. Aldrich Robinson has been a career back up to this point in his 7 year career and Garçon is 31 years old so I'm not sure how long you include him in our future. I like Bourne and Taylor just as much as the other niner fan but we don't need anymore depth, we have career depth starting right now, we need NFL starting caliber talent at WR. Even more so if we are bringing in rookie QBs, cause what we have at WR doesn't quite qualify as help at the WR position. Dontae Johnson has had now 5 years to develop and make good on his potential, while he's not good awful he's not exactly a player who belongs starting. Arguments could be the same said about Robinson as well, although this being his 2nd year I'd give him a little more time to develop. Behind them we have Asa Jackson and Witherspoon who doesn't even suit up on Sunday's. Again, I'll gladly give Witherspoon some more time to develop as he's a rookie but Jackson and Johnson just aren't the type of players who have exciting futures in the NFL, especially what they've shown thus far in their careers. To further add to my argument that talent is needed in a lot of places, if award continues to just be average or below average at FS and Reid leaves in FA next year we will have lost both our starting Safeties. The next up at each position is a UDFA this year and Tartt whos had his struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 53 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said: See Goodwin has been a starter while he was in Buffalo, maybe not for every game but it's not as if this guy never saw the field. He's just never stayed healthy in his 5 year career and now just reportedly had his 4th concussion in 14 months, on top of his droppsies problems which don't appear to be going away anytime soon. Aldrich Robinson has been a career back up to this point in his 7 year career and Garçon is 31 years old so I'm not sure how long you include him in our future. I like Bourne and Taylor just as much as the other niner fan but we don't need anymore depth, we have career depth starting right now, we need NFL starting caliber talent at WR. Even more so if we are bringing in rookie QBs, cause what we have at WR doesn't quite qualify as help at the WR position. Dontae Johnson has had now 5 years to develop and make good on his potential, while he's not good awful he's not exactly a player who belongs starting. Arguments could be the same said about Robinson as well, although this being his 2nd year I'd give him a little more time to develop. Behind them we have Asa Jackson and Witherspoon who doesn't even suit up on Sunday's. Again, I'll gladly give Witherspoon some more time to develop as he's a rookie but Jackson and Johnson just aren't the type of players who have exciting futures in the NFL, especially what they've shown thus far in their careers. To further add to my argument that talent is needed in a lot of places, if award continues to just be average or below average at FS and Reid leaves in FA next year we will have lost both our starting Safeties. The next up at each position is a UDFA this year and Tartt whos had his struggles. Goodwin never started in Buffalo. He was the speed guy that lined up in the slot or on the boundary and ran 9 routes all day. He wasn't asked to run the full route tree. He wasn't asked to make tough catches over the middle on 3rd downs. He wasn't asked to be "the man" and do the heavy lifting as far as being the focal point of the passing attack. It's more than just getting on the field and running routes. There's alot more on his shoulders as far being the primary mismatch every week and starting EVERY Sunday. Garcon is as good of a vet you could find to pair him up with but he doesn't have a Sammy Watkins on the other side to take the burden off him being the primary playmaker. And yes, his injury history is such that he has to prove he can start and be effective for a full 16 game season. He's essential the Hyde of WRs. Even though he's been in the league, he hasn't been a starter. Sometimes guys aren't ready for that kind of pressure, believe it or not. I'm not saying he isn't. But he obviously hasn't played to potential most ppl saw and read about in TC and pre-season. CB could definitely use some more talent but I'm just in the minority that Johnson and Robinson havent been as bad as ppl are led to believe. When you watch the All-22, you see excatly where the holes are and the breakdowns in coverage are coming from and it's more from ppl playing undisciplined football elsewhere than from the CBs themsleves. I noticed during the Cards game we played Bow@WILL on passing downs in place of Ray Ray. That helped alleviated some of the brain farts Armstrong would have in zone on 3rd downs. When Foster comes back, it should be even better. As far as Reid, he and Tartt are be interchangeable in this scheme IMO so I wouldn't be too distraught if he left in free agency. The simplified scheme seems to have helped Tartt play faster and more instinctive. He's looked better in these first 4 games than at any point in his previous 2 years here. I expect another off-season in this scheme and he'd be ready to hit the ground running next year as the starting SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Fureys49ers said: See Goodwin has been a starter while he was in Buffalo, maybe not for every game but it's not as if this guy never saw the field. He's just never stayed healthy in his 5 year career and now just reportedly had his 4th concussion in 14 months, on top of his droppsies problems which don't appear to be going away anytime soon. Aldrich Robinson has been a career back up to this point in his 7 year career and Garçon is 31 years old so I'm not sure how long you include him in our future. I like Bourne and Taylor just as much as the other niner fan but we don't need anymore depth, we have career depth starting right now, we need NFL starting caliber talent at WR. Even more so if we are bringing in rookie QBs, cause what we have at WR doesn't quite qualify as help at the WR position. Dontae Johnson has had now 5 years to develop and make good on his potential, while he's not good awful he's not exactly a player who belongs starting. Arguments could be the same said about Robinson as well, although this being his 2nd year I'd give him a little more time to develop. Behind them we have Asa Jackson and Witherspoon who doesn't even suit up on Sunday's. Again, I'll gladly give Witherspoon some more time to develop as he's a rookie but Jackson and Johnson just aren't the type of players who have exciting futures in the NFL, especially what they've shown thus far in their careers. To further add to my argument that talent is needed in a lot of places, if award continues to just be average or below average at FS and Reid leaves in FA next year we will have lost both our starting Safeties. The next up at each position is a UDFA this year and Tartt whos had his struggles. I think you're right about our skill/speed positions. We could use a couple of really good CBs and also a couple of really good WRs. I think our current WRs are better than our CBs, but I see zero upside in that position group as a whole and a lot of downside if/when Gracon turns the corner on his career (if he hasn't already done that). Heck we could use a couple of interior linemen too. Two CBs, two WRs and two Gs (or G and C) would help the team a lot. Those aren't our only holes and I"m not suggesting drafting that way. Just that it would not be the worst thing in the world. That said the two most important positions on the team are QB and edge rusher and we need both of those two. So those would be my draft (or FA) priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: Goodwin never started in Buffalo. He was the speed guy that lined up in the slot or on the boundary and ran 9 routes all day. He wasn't asked to run the full route tree. He wasn't asked to make tough catches over the middle on 3rd downs. He wasn't asked to be "the man" and do the heavy lifting as far as being the focal point of the passing attack. It's more than just getting on the field and running routes. There's alot more on his shoulders as far being the primary mismatch every week and starting EVERY Sunday. Garcon is as good of a vet you could find to pair him up with but he doesn't have a Sammy Watkins on the other side to take the burden off him being the primary playmaker. And yes, his injury history is such that he has to prove he can start and be effective for a full 16 game season. He's essential the Hyde of WRs. Even though he's been in the league, he hasn't been a starter. Sometimes guys aren't ready for that kind of pressure, believe it or not. I'm not saying he isn't. But he obviously hasn't played to potential most ppl saw and read about in TC and pre-season. CB could definitely use some more talent but I'm just in the minority that Johnson and Robinson havent been as bad as ppl are led to believe. When you watch the All-22, you see excatly where the holes are and the breakdowns in coverage are coming from and it's more from ppl playing undisciplined football elsewhere than from the CBs themsleves. I noticed during the Cards game we played Bow@WILL on passing downs in place of Ray Ray. That helped alleviated some of the brain farts Armstrong would have in zone on 3rd downs. When Foster comes back, it should be even better. As far as Reid, he and Tartt are be interchangeable in this scheme IMO so I wouldn't be too distraught if he left in free agency. The simplified scheme seems to have helped Tartt play faster and more instinctive. He's looked better in these first 4 games than at any point in his previous 2 years here. I expect another off-season in this scheme and he'd be ready to hit the ground running next year as the starting SS. He did start about half the games last year when Watkins went down, but yes, he was never the true "starter". He's still not a good receiver though. Position that should definitely be upgraded, and there are some decent receiver options in free agency next year (Fitz, Jeffrey, Pryor, Watkins, Decker - though he's not having a good season, injuries may have caught up to him, Jordan Matthews, Marquise Lee, Davante Adams, Allen Robinson, Moncrief, Martavis Bryant, Jarvis Landry), so that should be a position we could potentially look to fill there. Corner is a black hole. Robinson has all sorts of awareness and discipline issues right now. Could be corrected, too soon to tell, so I'm not giving up on him, but I'd prefer him as CB3 rather than CB1 at the current point in time. Williams is a very competent slot corner, so I think that we are good there. Johnson has never impressed me. He has a moment here and there, but not enough that I would care about bringing him back or not. Witherspoon is a project. Hard to say what we have there. At the very least I think we need one good starting cornerback capable guy. I don't mind buying a 1-2 vet for someone a little long in the tooth (Brent Grimes, Vontae Davis) Agree about Reid and Tartt. Honestly, I think that Tartt is playing Reid out of an extension with us right now unless we elect to move Ward back to corner or we really want to continue strongly with a 3 safety set. We could still get Reid an extension, but I think the odds that we will let him walk are slightly higher than they were when the season first started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Forge said: He did start about half the games last year when Watkins went down, but yes, he was never the true "starter". That's what I'm saying. When everyone was healthy he was the 4th WR. He only started due to injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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