Just Want A Title Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 17 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: I dont get this thinking on Snead. Valenti has been hounding on it all afternoon too and I think he is just being ridiculous. Sure Snead would be great, but he is suggesting it would take pick 61 and then a 5 year 100M deal. I am guessing he would cost about that which is a lot for a CB who is good but isnt a top 5 CB. It seems there are plenty of other options that can be cheaper cap wise, shorter term, and don't cost picks or as high of picks. We have talked at length about other guys we could sign in free agency like Kendall Fuller (who has been better than Snead over the last four years). Xavien Howard has had a couple of down years but is now a free agent. Isaiah Oliver, Stephen Gilmore, Akhello Witherspoon, Sean Murphy-Bunting, Kenny Moore, Chidobe Awuzie, Shaquill Griffin, Rock Ya-Sin etc are all viable options to add at CB and are free agents. They will cost a vastly different amount and years but you can sign Fuller for 2/3 years at $30-40M and then Ya-Sin at 1 or 2 years at 4-6M and our DBs are better all around for less. Need @Karnage84 to see which of these guys or other FA's seem to fit our system the best but there has to be a mix of guys that would make us better without blowing all of our cap on one team. In the trade market, there are options worth exploring that may be cheaper. Marshawn Lattimore should cost less but likely will be a post June 1 move for NO if they move him. He has a high cap hit in 25 and 26 but can be cut/extended to fix that. And that allows us to get the big contract off the books when guys like Branch, Laporta etc are being extended. The Bills are in cap trouble and have two CB's on the final years of their contracts we could make a move for in Rasul Douglas or Taron Johnson. Tampa is in cap trouble and maybe Jamel Dean could be had cheaper given his contract is expiring after next year. San Fran also is in trouble with the cap and Charvarious Ward is going into the final year of his contract. Finally the Dolphins are also in cap trouble and Ramsey has been unhappy and maybe he could be had. A lot of options that aren't Snead that should be explored if we want to trade picks for a proven player. And he said we are in a great cap spot and it will keep going up so don't worry about keeping our guys down the road. But the reason we are in a good cap situation is because we haven't given out huge long term contracts to guys just to fill holes. We need to upgrade from Kindle Vildor and Kahlil Dorsey. Vildor was the guy who had the ball bounce off his face. Vildor is the one who gave up the 90 yard TD to Lamb. Vildor is the one who gave up the long TD to TuTu Atwell in the Rams playoff game. We don't need to freak out and make a move that straps us for 5 years, we just need someone better than the guy who got cut from the Bears before the season started. Another aspect of Holmes comments about drafting, developing and retaining our own opposed to big free agent splashes makes sense because so many times we see these top rated players leave their system they excelled in and not do as well in a new system. Guys like Ramsey and Patrick Peterson were good enough talents they could survive wherever but just last year JC Jackson leaves for a big contract and then sucks in LAC's system. Thats why short contracts with minimal risk make the most sense. Trust in the scouting, developing and decision making by those who have done it so far. We all stressed on Holmes about finding a WR after not re-signing Golladay. People yelled when he waited until round 4 to draft ARSB and guess what, it worked out. I will trust him in this situation too and not try to long term fix a problem with a short term solution. Given Marshawn Lattimore's number of missed games due to injury, I don't see him as a trade target. Kendall Fuller would be a solid addition at a more affordable price/ However, saying Kendall Fuller has been better than L'Jarius Sneed for the last 4-years isn't necessarily supported by they stats in comparison. Kendall Fuller Games Pass Coverage Pass Rush Tackles Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl% 2018 23 KAN LCB 23 15 15 2 113 76 67.3% 802 10.6 7.1 2 86.2 8.8 457 345 16 1 0 0.0 1 82 10 10.9% 2019 24 KAN DB 29 11 4 0 36 28 77.8% 321 11.5 8.9 3 131.6 7.6 173 148 19 2 0 1.0 3 49 3 5.8% 2020 25 WAS LCB/RCB 29 14 14 4 85 52 61.2% 553 10.6 6.5 6 84.1 9.2 339 214 3 0 0 0.0 0 50 9 15.3% 2021 26 WAS LCB 29 16 16 1 113 76 67.3% 805 10.6 7.1 4 95.9 9.4 535 270 6 1 0 1.0 2 77 9 10.5% 2022 27 WAS CB 29 17 17 3 74 41 55.4% 590 14.4 8.0 5 87.1 11.8 396 194 2 0 0 0.0 0 52 5 8.8% 2023 28 WAS CB 29 15 15 2 80 55 68.8% 651 11.8 8.1 9 120.4 9.3 342 309 0 0 0 0.0 0 79 5 6 L'Jarius Sneed Games Pass Coverage Pass Rush Tackles Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl% 2020 23 KAN DB 38 9 6 3 52 31 59.6% 250 8.1 4.8 1 54.2 8.7 118 132 13 0 1 2.0 3 41 4 8.9% 2021 24 KAN RCB 38 15 15 2 80 55 68.8% 585 10.6 7.3 3 91.9 7.5 309 276 47 4 2 1.0 7 76 11 12.6% 2022 25 KAN CB 38 17 17 3 104 69 66.3% 649 9.4 6.2 4 84.2 6.8 312 337 40 3 3 3.5 10 108 5 4.4% 2023 26 KAN CB 38 16 16 2 100 51 51.0% 478 9.4 4.8 0 56.2 9.9 283 195 12 0 3 0.0 3 78 6 7.1% https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SneeLJ00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FullKe00.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idoubtit Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I don't know what to think anymore. Two positions I would never draft in the first round are RB and LB. Go figure. Having said that CB is a weird position. Though a few develop early most seem to take a few years to acclimate to the NFL and thereby using up a good portion of the rookie contract in development. OTOH, the price for good CBs in FA seems too high and makes one think we would be better off developing our own. Holmes seems to have the strategy of signing mid-tier FAs and drafting low round choices in the hopes of getting enough talent to cover the position. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 16 minutes ago, idoubtit said: I don't know what to think anymore. Two positions I would never draft in the first round are RB and LB. Go figure. Having said that CB is a weird position. Though a few develop early most seem to take a few years to acclimate to the NFL and thereby using up a good portion of the rookie contract in development. OTOH, the price for good CBs in FA seems too high and makes one think we would be better off developing our own. Holmes seems to have the strategy of signing mid-tier FAs and drafting low round choices in the hopes of getting enough talent to cover the position. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't know if you can say that Brad Holmes has a strategy. He inherited a team that was mostly bereft of talent on defense and offense other than Frank Ragnow and Taylor Decker. He had a ton of holes to fill and a finite amount of draft capital at his disposal. We have less holes this year than in yeas past so this should allow CB to bubble up to the top of the priority list. This draft is lining up in a way that will make a number of pretty good CB prospects available to them between picks 29 and 73. I think we do know that Brad Holmes is a very smart GM who knows the weaknesses of his roster. He knows that in a pass-driven league, the Lions need legit CBs. The Lions have two glaring needs this year and CB is one of them. He will find a way to address it even if it surprises the heck out of almost everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Without much (if any) research whatsoever, I believe that CB is currently one of the worst positions in terms of bang-for-your-buck at the high end of the contract spectrum. Not that the position itself is unimportant, but that the highest paid players aren't the best players. I don't think I'd give out any kind of a high end contract for a FA corner. They'd have to be in-house. It feels like its far more important to have a good group than a great #1. It's hard to quantify since the highest rated CBs are all on good/great units. I think that's where Fuller suffered in 2023. One of the worst defenses in modern history. Absolutely abysmal secondary. Sneed was in a top 5 unit. I also wouldn't mind just letting the draft play out. I don't believe Devon Witherspoon was regarded as a top 15 prospect until after his workout, for example. Once it got close to the draft he was a consensus top 6 pick. CB has the lowest bust rate (1st round draft) out of any skill position over the last 25 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said: Given Marshawn Lattimore's number of missed games due to injury, I don't see him as a trade target. Kendall Fuller would be a solid addition at a more affordable price/ However, saying Kendall Fuller has been better than L'Jarius Sneed for the last 4-years isn't necessarily supported by they stats in comparison. Kendall Fuller Games Pass Coverage Pass Rush Tackles Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl% 2018 23 KAN LCB 23 15 15 2 113 76 67.3% 802 10.6 7.1 2 86.2 8.8 457 345 16 1 0 0.0 1 82 10 10.9% 2019 24 KAN DB 29 11 4 0 36 28 77.8% 321 11.5 8.9 3 131.6 7.6 173 148 19 2 0 1.0 3 49 3 5.8% 2020 25 WAS LCB/RCB 29 14 14 4 85 52 61.2% 553 10.6 6.5 6 84.1 9.2 339 214 3 0 0 0.0 0 50 9 15.3% 2021 26 WAS LCB 29 16 16 1 113 76 67.3% 805 10.6 7.1 4 95.9 9.4 535 270 6 1 0 1.0 2 77 9 10.5% 2022 27 WAS CB 29 17 17 3 74 41 55.4% 590 14.4 8.0 5 87.1 11.8 396 194 2 0 0 0.0 0 52 5 8.8% 2023 28 WAS CB 29 15 15 2 80 55 68.8% 651 11.8 8.1 9 120.4 9.3 342 309 0 0 0 0.0 0 79 5 6 L'Jarius Sneed Games Pass Coverage Pass Rush Tackles Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl% 2020 23 KAN DB 38 9 6 3 52 31 59.6% 250 8.1 4.8 1 54.2 8.7 118 132 13 0 1 2.0 3 41 4 8.9% 2021 24 KAN RCB 38 15 15 2 80 55 68.8% 585 10.6 7.3 3 91.9 7.5 309 276 47 4 2 1.0 7 76 11 12.6% 2022 25 KAN CB 38 17 17 3 104 69 66.3% 649 9.4 6.2 4 84.2 6.8 312 337 40 3 3 3.5 10 108 5 4.4% 2023 26 KAN CB 38 16 16 2 100 51 51.0% 478 9.4 4.8 0 56.2 9.9 283 195 12 0 3 0.0 3 78 6 7.1% https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SneeLJ00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FullKe00.htm https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-rankings-final-sauce-gardner-retains-his-place-as-the-no-1-cornerback-in-the-nfl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-rankings-final-sauce-gardner-retains-his-place-as-the-no-1-cornerback-in-the-nfl I don't know how PFF calculates their rankings, but when they say the Isaiah Oliver is just about at the same level as L'Jarius Sneed that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, Trent McDuffie Is probably under-rated. Denzel Ward as the 32nd best CB in the NFL? This is why I take PFF rankings with a grain of salt. Edited February 29 by Just Want A Title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 13 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: I don't know how PFF calculates their rankings, but when they say the Isaiah Oliver is just about at the same level as L'Jarius Sneed that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, Trent McDuffie Is probably under-rated also. Denzel Ward as the 32nd best CB in the NFL? This is why I take PFF rankings with a grain of salt. There are various factors that go into it but it includes their ability in man, zone, against the run, being in the right spot per the play design. It doesn't just look at a stat and think someone is better than the rest. Based on overall play this year, Denzel Ward was 32nd. He had a 20% missed tackle rate, Kendall Fuller had a 6% missed tackle rate. Fuller had 79 tackles to Wards 32. Ward was on the field for 79% of his teams defensive snaps, Fuller was on the field for 99% of his teams snaps. There are many ways to grade a CB, and while Fuller has some issues in completion percentage against, he makes up for in his overall impact. I don't think one ranking is the end all be all, but the guys at the top of the PFF list are pretty generally considered the top CBs in the league and I trust it more than I do Madden rankings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: There are various factors that go into it but it includes their ability in man, zone, against the run, being in the right spot per the play design. It doesn't just look at a stat and think someone is better than the rest. Based on overall play this year, Denzel Ward was 32nd. He had a 20% missed tackle rate, Kendall Fuller had a 6% missed tackle rate. Fuller had 79 tackles to Wards 32. Ward was on the field for 79% of his teams defensive snaps, Fuller was on the field for 99% of his teams snaps. There are many ways to grade a CB, and while Fuller has some issues in completion percentage against, he makes up for in his overall impact. I don't think one ranking is the end all be all, but the guys at the top of the PFF list are pretty generally considered the top CBs in the league and I trust it more than I do Madden rankings. I haven't seen madden rankings used in the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 17 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: I haven't seen madden rankings used in the forum. This is how I am going to do all future rankings 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said: I haven't seen madden rankings used in the forum. Not saying you did, but similar to Madden, once a player is rated high, they stay there no matter their actual play. Ward and even Lattimore are examples of that. Ramsey had a worse year this year than any previous year. Just because he is a big name doesn't mean they can't have down years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 4 hours ago, BigC421/ said: Agree with this 100% The talk radio crowd keeps going on with the double talk of the cap doesn’t really matter/ it will keep going up/ it can be manipulated while also endlessly talking about how short windows in the NFL are as if the two aren’t related. A lot teams windows shut sooner than expected because they get ahead of themselves and screw over there cap situation. Unless you plan on being a perfect drafter that’s going to catch up with you in a hurry. Outside of generational talents or just extreme opportunities I’ve never really been on board with the concept of trading high draft picks for guys that aren’t under contract. Your essentially giving up picks for the right to pay out for the biggest free agent on the market. Signing those types of FA contracts is a debate in of itself let alone giving up picks for the privilege. Very well said and I couldn’t agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) The link below had a lot of good information about Mathieu Betts and Quan'Tez Stiggers. The second half on Quan'Tez Stiggers between the 5 and 7 minute mark was very cool. During the podcast mentioned that despite the fact that he played mostly zone-coverage in the CFL, he excelled in both man coverage and zone coverage at the Shrine Bowl. He is sounding a lot like the type of CB we need. https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2024/3/1/24087423/detroit-lions-mathieu-betts-profile-podcast-cfl-pass-rusher Edited March 1 by Just Want A Title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 This isn't Lions-related but apparently the Broncos are going to cut Russel Wilson despite the massive dead-cap hit they will take. I am sure it is a financial issue for the organization but they could designate him a post-June 1st release to minimize the salary cap mess. That is pressing the reset button in a big way. Maybe they would be more open to trade offers for Patrick Surtain II if they are going to put themselves in salary cap hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, Just Want A Title said: This isn't Lions-related but apparently the Broncos are going to cut Russel Wilson despite the massive dead-cap hit they will take. I am sure it is a financial issue for the organization but they could designate him a post-June 1st release to minimize the salary cap mess. That is pressing the reset button in a big way. Maybe they would be more open to trade offers for Patrick Surtain II if they are going to put themselves in salary cap hell. There's a discussion that they could be in the JJ McCarthy conversation. With their pick sitting there at #12, they probably have to trade up to get him. The Giants (#6), Vikings (#11) and Raiders (#13) are in the mix for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 19 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: There's a discussion that they could be in the JJ McCarthy conversation. With their pick sitting there at #12, they probably have to trade up to get him. The Giants (#6), Vikings (#11) and Raiders (#13) are in the mix for him. Given their situation, it seems like they would be more likely to make a move to get more draft picks than give them up. It is best way to survive that messy cap situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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