Texans trade 23rd pick to Vikings for 42nd, 188th, and 2025 2nd

[CWood21]

40 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Not really sure why LAC has become such a hot discussion topic vis a vis the trade up for QB4 chatter. 

How is that going to work, in practice? You obviously can’t do it before the draft, because you’ll leave a pick between you and the top 3 for the other teams to target and jump you. 

So our concept is that we love this QB enough to trade a massive pile of assets to get him, and we know that potentially 3-4 other teams are also in the mix, bidding against us — but we’re going to sweat out the Arizona pick and hope they stay put, to try to save a bit of additional draft capital?

I don’t think that’s realistic. I think Arizona is the only target. Someone will make it worth their while. And if you want to land your QB4, it’ll have to be you. 

I think would be clearly a draft day deal, specifically after Arizona picks at 4.  I think everyone is operating under the assumption that Arizona will be locked into Marvin Harrison Jr. with their pick, so if that ends up being true than the Chargers at 5 are the next team up and probably willing to move off that pick.  I don't think there's any chance a pre-draft deal happens involving the Chargers with a team looking to move up for a QB.

[squire12]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Not really sure why LAC has become such a hot discussion topic vis a vis the trade up for QB4 chatter. 

How is that going to work, in practice? You obviously can’t do it before the draft, because you’ll leave a pick between you and the top 3 for the other teams to target and jump you. 

NE is still in play as they could be willing to move down. Probably its pick 3, 4 or 5 that could be targeted in a trade up.  

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

So our concept is that we love this QB enough to trade a massive pile of assets to get him, and we know that potentially 3-4 other teams are also in the mix, bidding against us — but we’re going to sweat out the Arizona pick and hope they stay put, to try to save a bit of additional draft capital?

Would most likely be a draft day trade/ on the clock trade.  

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I don’t think that’s realistic. I think Arizona is the only target. Someone will make it worth their while. And if you want to land your QB4, it’ll have to be you. 

Pick 3, 4, 5 could be targets

[vike daddy]

10 minutes ago, squire12 said:

NE is still in play as they could be willing to move down. Probably its pick 3, 4 or 5 that could be targeted in a trade up.  

Would most likely be a draft day trade/ on the clock trade.  

Pick 3, 4, 5 could be targets

yup, yup, and yup.

lots of talks in advance and terms wrangled back and forth. and then a mutual decision to talk again on Draft Day.

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I think Arizona is the only target. Someone will make it worth their while. 

NE has very good options at #3, including trading down. or... taking Harrison themselves, which could then prompt AZ to move down.

or NE and AZ both hold firm, making the Chargers at 5 the new target.

it's very fluid right now, as it should be.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I think would be clearly a draft day deal, specifically after Arizona picks at 4.  I think everyone is operating under the assumption that Arizona will be locked into Marvin Harrison Jr. with their pick, so if that ends up being true than the Chargers at 5 are the next team up and probably willing to move off that pick.  I don't think there's any chance a pre-draft deal happens involving the Chargers with a team looking to move up for a QB.

I think Minnesota’s going to get skinned if they wait till draft day, though. Let’s say it is Arizona on the clock and Minnesota is calling them to trade up - if AZ has any sense whatsoever, then they know they’re getting that 2025 FRP and probably decent change, because they know Minnesota’s already taken steps to get up this far. Have to complete the strategy, and clock’s ticking, someone else is on the other line waiting to tell me their deal.

[Tugboat]

12 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Possibly.  But we're also assuming that the Patriots are indeed wanting one of the top QBs.  I know I had them as a dark horse contender for Justin Fields, but I could easily see where they trade down with someone like the NY Giants for their pick this year plus future pick(s) and then take someone like Michael Penix in the late FRP, early SRP range.

Yeah.  Everyone's just sort of penciling in 3 QBs 1-2-3...but New England are an interesting one.  They could be a potential trade down spot for somebody moving up for QB3.  But i also think there are a few teams that might be in a range where they could conceivably try to jump up a handful of spots to leapfrog Arizona for MHJ.  Thinking...shades of the Julio trade, but likely not coming from nearly as far back.

 

The Patriots are just so early in a complete franchise reorientation and rebuilding process.  I could really see them valuing the idea of going out and putting a bunch of building blocks in place before they pull the trigger on a Top-5 Pick QB that will be thrown into a mess that is very much in transition from the Bill Era still.  That regime are going to have a bit of leash, when you move on from a guy like Belichick.  Not sure how keen they will be to tie themselves immediately to the first QB that comes along.  But it depends on how much they like whichever of Maye/Daniels/JJ is available to them.

Just a bit of a unique situation where they "need a QB" but i wouldn't categorize them as the same sort of "QB Needy" as others like the Vikings, Raiders, Broncos...in that i don't sense the same immediacy there.

 

9 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I feel like you have to assume that things have changed regarding how New England drafts now.  Belichick was highly specific on roles he wanted guys to play, which resulted in some truly Strange overdrafting because the other guy who could fill that role was gone.  Elliot Wolf runs the draft room now and he's probably a lot more like his dad and more like conventional Green Bay, in that he'd rather draft "an OL" than "a LG".

 

This is the other real wrinkle in things.  After all these years of being Bill's organization...i'm not really entirely sure what to expect from the NuPatriots under a new regime.  A lot of the classic Pats things are likely to be bygones and they may start to behave a little bit more conventionally.  But it also makes them a bit of a real wildcard in the #3 Spot.  If there's a big curveball thrown early in this draft, i'd bet on that being the spot.

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I think would be clearly a draft day deal, specifically after Arizona picks at 4.  I think everyone is operating under the assumption that Arizona will be locked into Marvin Harrison Jr. with their pick, so if that ends up being true than the Chargers at 5 are the next team up and probably willing to move off that pick.  I don't think there's any chance a pre-draft deal happens involving the Chargers with a team looking to move up for a QB.

Right, I think everyone is operating under that assumption too, that Arizona is locked into MHJ.

I’m just not sure why.

He’s the obvious pick if they stay put. Totally on board there. But we’re talking about several teams that are potentially desperately QB-hunting — and arguably (if you’re buying the narrative that McCarthy has separated from Nix/Penix), they’re all hunting for one guy. That’s ripe for a huge return, and no matter how good a prospect MHJ is, no WR prospect is ever going to be worth turning down a trade package that would likely contain multiple 1st rounders and more. The only prospects possibly worth the prices teams will pay for potential franchise QBs…are potential franchise QBs.

And even if they’re deadset on going WR, Arizona could easily do what Miami did a couple years ago, take the huge trade-down and then flip some of those assets to move back up to secure one of the top 3 WRs. Odunze plus a future 1st (from a team potentially starting JJ McCarthy or some terrible bridge QB) feels like a much better bet than just MHJ.

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, squire12 said:

NE is still in play as they could be willing to move down. Probably its pick 3, 4 or 5 that could be targeted in a trade up.  

Would most likely be a draft day trade/ on the clock trade.  

Pick 3, 4, 5 could be targets

2 hours ago, vike daddy said:

NE has very good options at #3, including trading down. or... taking Harrison themselves, which could then prompt AZ to move down.

or NE and AZ both hold firm, making the Chargers at 5 the new target.

it's very fluid right now, as it should be.

Can get on board with NE also being an option. I don’t know enough about their thoughts and intentions to say for certain that they couldn’t be bought out of their pick. 

I guess my point moreso is what I led with — that I’m not sure how it’s working out for LAC to be the target spot. I get that everyone thinks Harbaugh/Hortiz might want to trade down, but I just don’t think they have the asset teams are really looking for. 

[vike daddy]

3 hours ago, Soko said:

I think Minnesota’s going to get skinned if they wait till draft day, though. Let’s say it is Arizona on the clock and Minnesota is calling them to trade up - if AZ has any sense whatsoever, then they know they’re getting that 2025 FRP and probably decent change, because they know Minnesota’s already taken steps to get up this far. Have to complete the strategy, and clock’s ticking, someone else is on the other line waiting to tell me their deal.

i don't think MN would get skinned in that situation, i think what you outlined here (the pressure of AZ being demanding as the clock is ticking) is just what MN would expect to happen. so they'll have their answers formulated and in place.

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

The Patriots are just so early in a complete franchise reorientation and rebuilding process.  I could really see them valuing the idea of going out and putting a bunch of building blocks in place before they pull the trigger on a Top-5 Pick QB that will be thrown into a mess that is very much in transition from the Bill Era still.  That regime are going to have a bit of leash, when you move on from a guy like Belichick.  Not sure how keen they will be to tie themselves immediately to the first QB that comes along.  But it depends on how much they like whichever of Maye/Daniels/JJ is available to them.

Just a bit of a unique situation where they "need a QB" but i wouldn't categorize them as the same sort of "QB Needy" as others like the Vikings, Raiders, Broncos...in that i don't sense the same immediacy there.

yes, exactly. and because they're a "new" organization now, and quite likely one that will want to differentiate themselves from the bygone Bill days, they are really difficult to predict.

i think one of their top three avenues to go down is to take Harrison themselves, instead of a QB. or, as i have said several times, extort AZ into trading 4 for 3, saying NE is going to take Harrison so come get him at 3. then NE could trade down from 4 for a booty of picks, plus AZ's ransom payment.

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I’m not sure how it’s working out for LAC to be the target spot. I get that everyone thinks Harbaugh/Hortiz might want to trade down, but I just don’t think they have the asset teams are really looking for. 

if NE picks a QB and AZ picks Harrison, then yes, LAC's #5 instantly becomes very valuable and desired, possibly by three or more teams.

[11sanchez11]

5 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

extort AZ into trading 4 for 3, saying NE is going to take Harrison so come get him at 3.

If Marvin gets picked before AZ now they have a top 3 QB for teams to go after. Win win for AZ. No chance they trade up. 

[Hunter2_1]

9 hours ago, vike daddy said:

NE has very good options at #3, including trading down. or... taking Harrison themselves, which could then prompt AZ to move down.

or NE and AZ both hold firm, making the Chargers at 5 the new target.

it's very fluid right now, as it should be.

I’d be very surprised if we didn’t draft whoever is there from Daniels and Maye

[Xenos]

20 hours ago, howru8888 said:

What about 11,23 and the 2025 1st to LAC for Herbert. Harbaugh drafts his guy JJ at 5, OT at 11, and a WR like Leggett at 23?

Besides the fact that it’ll cost a lot more than that to get Herbert, he also has a no trade clause on his contract. And even if he didn’t, the following Tweet below highlights why it won’t happen.

 

[vike daddy]

The Vikings are set to get a close look at one possible addition at the position next week. Albert Breer of SI.com reports that the team will be watching J.J. McCarthy work out a couple of times.

Quarterbacks coaches Josh McCown and Grant Udinski are set to be at Michigan’s Pro Day on March 22 and Breer reports that Adofo-Mensah and head coach Kevin O’Connell are set to travel to Ann Arbor for a private workout with the Wolverines standout.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-vikings-to-have-private-workout-with-jj-mccarthy-next-week

 

for what that's worth. i expect them to do the same with Maye and Daniels too.