Packerraymond Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I don't really have any issues with this train of thought, but I think if you're going to get behind this you need to come to the reality that a new DC is likely going to want to bring in their own guys, which means guys like Joe Whitt, Mike Trgovac, etc. are going to be looking for jobs elsewhere. Is that something you're willing to live with? I think that's Mike's call over the DC. When Dom came in he had no prior work with Whitt, Trg or Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I think that's Mike's call over the DC. When Dom came in he had no prior work with Whitt, Trg or Moss. Do you really believe that Mike is going to dictate to a new DC that they have to retain X, Y, and Z? Or do you think it's more likely that the new DC is going to have the freedom to hire their own guys? Given how Mike pretty much gave free reign to Dom to form his staff as he chose, it seems far more likely that Mike might have some oversight but too many demands is going to create a more hostile environment. Secondly, how many DC candidates that have had success in past years are going to be willing to come to Green Bay knowing they're not going to bring in their own guys? That's going to limit things considerably. Don't get me wrong, I do think that there is going to be some involvement from Mike, but I think him having his hand in the pot is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Its all a negotiation If they pick a young, up and coming guy, he doesn't have the juice to attract the top position coaches, nor does he have the juice to dictate all the terms of employment. If they grab a senior DC, he will have colleagues he wants on his crew, and a bit more leverage on the terms of the deal. And the wisdom to know how to choose your battles But I don't think its all or nothing, it will be part of the conversation and interview process. I think MM will exert some influence, ultimately, its his team and it doesn't make sense to switch unless the new guys are demonstrably better than Trgo and Whitt. Any guys MM worked with before who might be of interest ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoekd0250 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I agree that I believe that Caper has to go, but for other reasons rather than scheme. The problem isn't: lack of talent on defense, or that the scheme or techniques are difficult to comprehend for the players. Capers problem is that he's great at scheming and creating subpackage for certain formations that he himself over thinks the situations themselves. In the process of running all these subpackages is that over the course of a season its easier to study a coaches tendencies and his packages become predictable. Capers becomes to predictable on how he matches up to offenses with all these subpackages that offenses are always one step ahead before the snap. That's how Cam knew Mathews had watched film because they knew how the packers would react scheme and package wise based on the down & distance and formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: I don't really have any issues with this train of thought, but I think if you're going to get behind this you need to come to the reality that a new DC is likely going to want to bring in their own guys, which means guys like Joe Whitt, Mike Trgovac, etc. are going to be looking for jobs elsewhere. Is that something you're willing to live with? I can live with it, even though these are excellent coaches we aren't getting the job done on defense with these guys in house anyways. We need some change man. But at the same time it's not a done deal that when we get a new DC that we won't still have most of these coaches here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, hoekd0250 said: That's how Cam knew Mathews had watched film because they knew how the packers would react scheme and package wise based on the down & distance and formation. The only thing worse than that play was that there wasn't a code word for what Matthews thought was a wheel route. Isn't it normal for defenses to have code words for that sort of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 This isn't a throw the baby out with the bathwater type thing. We're choosing whether or not to throw out the sponge with the bathwater. The best sponge in the world won't clean you in dirty bathwater just like the best positional coaches in the world won't fix your defense if the coordinator is crap. Fire Capers. If that means saying goodbye to positional coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 hours ago, CWood21 said: I don't really have any issues with this train of thought, but I think if you're going to get behind this you need to come to the reality that a new DC is likely going to want to bring in their own guys, which means guys like Joe Whitt, Mike Trgovac, etc. are going to be looking for jobs elsewhere. Is that something you're willing to live with? Yes. If Mike decides to hire a DC from outside the organization he'll probably want to bring in his own guys. MM does let the DC run the entire show on that side of the ball and that alone might be a situation a prospective DC would find enticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltarich87 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Do it Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillparsi1 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, deltarich87 said: Do it Mike I read this the complete opposite way...taking emotion out of it means he won’t let the frustration of not making the playoffs affect his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said: I can live with it, even though these are excellent coaches we aren't getting the job done on defense with these guys in house anyways. We need some change man. But at the same time it's not a done deal that when we get a new DC that we won't still have most of these coaches here. And if that's something you're okay with, I've got no issues with that. But if you're demanding that the Packers fire Dom and hire a new DC AND want to retain some if not all of the positional coaches than I think you're not living in reality. A new DC is going to want to bring in their own guys. Does that mean they won't retain some of the positional coaches? Possibly, but any DC candidate whose worth their salt is going to bring in their own guy and if they're not able to do that they're going to get another gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 14 hours ago, CWood21 said: Why does everyone think that switching defensive schemes is going to magically solve our defensive issues? From an interview with Wade Phillips after he took the Rams job and switched them from 4-3 to a 3-4 You’re with the Rams now and you’ve made the defense switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4. You’ve done that several times in your career, including with the Broncos. Why do you seem to enjoy taking a 4-3 and turning it into a 3-4 so much? PHILLIPS: I do think you’re more mobile with four linebackers and three linemen than you are with three linebackers and four linemen. I think every team I’ve been with has been in the top five in sacks, and I don’t think that’s by coincidence; I think it’s because of the schemes you can do with a 3-4. [Indeed, a Phillips-led defense has been in the top five in sacks every year he’s been a defensive coordinator since 2011.] Most of your pass coverage is a four-man rush, so they know where the rush is coming from in a 4-3 most all the time. . . . You know four guys are coming in a 3-4 but you have to account for where the fourth guy is coming from, and I think that’s where it gives you an advantage. The zone blitzes that [**** LeBeau] came up with and started, those things are a lot easier to run from a 3-4 because any time you drop an outside guy, he’s a linebacker, whereas in the 4-3 you drop him and he’s a defensive end and not used to dropping. . . . In a four-man front, the center either blocks one way or the other to help. And in a three-man front, the center has to block the guy in front of him, so now you get more one-on-ones. Basically they have to block five-on-five because they don’t know where the other guy is coming from." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 38 minutes ago, chillparsi1 said: I read this the complete opposite way...taking emotion out of it means he won’t let the frustration of not making the playoffs affect his decisions. I read it the other way. He thinks it's unfortunate that he has to do it, but he can take time and take the emotion of firing a friend, out of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, MNPackfan32 said: I read it the other way. He thinks it's unfortunate that he has to do it, but he can take time and take the emotion of firing a friend, out of the equation. yeah, basically, hes already figuring out what he wants to do (fire certain people). hes not going to do it during the season though, which gives him a couple weeks to take the emotion out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 12 hours ago, CWood21 said: Do you really believe that Mike is going to dictate to a new DC that they have to retain X, Y, and Z? Or do you think it's more likely that the new DC is going to have the freedom to hire their own guys? Given how Mike pretty much gave free reign to Dom to form his staff as he chose, it seems far more likely that Mike might have some oversight but too many demands is going to create a more hostile environment. Secondly, how many DC candidates that have had success in past years are going to be willing to come to Green Bay knowing they're not going to bring in their own guys? That's going to limit things considerably. Don't get me wrong, I do think that there is going to be some involvement from Mike, but I think him having his hand in the pot is unlikely. All I'm saying is we got Dom in the beginning of Mike's tenure and he clearly picked the guys other than Greene and Perry. Why would that change now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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