CWood21 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 11 hours ago, vike daddy said: does Kirko have a no trade clause? i don't know. According to Spotrac he does. Gonna be another Derek Carr situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 46 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: He's not an alpha, he's too frail to leave on the LOS, you're going to have to move him around a scheme targets for him, that's just not a round 1 WR to me. Pearsall will have a better career. That’s exactly what Miami does for Hill, and what makes him so difficult to defend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 If you were planning on taking a QB at 8, you sign a one year bridge QB. You don't give a guy 100 mil in guarantees. Individually, neither move is bad. Together, they are disjointed, dysfunctional, will split the locker room, clearly pissed off the owner, and show no ability to plan ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 3 minutes ago, Soko said: That’s exactly what Miami does for Hill, and what makes him so difficult to defend. That's severely underestimating Hill's ability. You can put him out-wide and forget about him and he'll win ISO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, Ragnarok said: If you were planning on taking a QB at 8, you sign a one year bridge QB. You don't give a guy 100 mil in guarantees. Individually, neither move is bad. Together, they are disjointed, dysfunctional, will split the locker room, clearly pissed off the owner, and show no ability to plan ahead. It’s the move analytics guys go on about with thinking about how these things impact the personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 I probably wouldn't have minded the "Draft a Kirk successor" as much if it was for JJ who is 20. But to do it for a soon-to-be 24 year old Penix? Then sit him for at least 2 years? I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) Forgive these hot takes: The best 17 players went in the top 17, 16 of them to an appropriate team. As the first round entered its seventh inning GMs started to stretch. Washington's choice of Daniels over Maye was clearcut, as was Maye to N.E. The Chargers hope to revive their N-S ground game. Atlanta has zero confidence in Kirk Cousins staying healthy. The rich got richer. How did Philly and Detroit score the top 2 CBs? Tennessee should have traded down. Bo Nix ended up where he belonged. "Good teams trade up, bad teams trade down" was vindicated. Again. Minny may have pulled off what Houston did last year...and more cheaply. Hosed out of a QB by Atlanta, the Raiders recovered brilliantly. Getting Legette makes me wonder if the drugs have worn off in Carolina. We knew there'd be no early trades and that offence would dominate but...Wow! Edited April 26 by Dr A W Niloc typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 9 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: That's severely underestimating Hill's ability. You can put him out-wide and forget about him and he'll win ISO. How is what I said underestimating Hill’s ability? I said Miami schemes him a ton of touches and that makes him difficult to defend. Teams wish they’d put him out wide and not send him on these jet sweeps, motions, routes out of the backfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teen Girl Squad Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, Soko said: How is what I said underestimating Hill’s ability? I said Miami schemes him a ton of touches and that makes him difficult to defend. Teams wish they’d put him out wide and not send him on these jet sweeps, motions, routes out of the backfield. Because you can't necessarily just scheme any fast guy into the Hill role and get that type of production. Looking over the league the past decade seems to point to Hill being an unicorn rather than that skillset being under-utilized/poorly implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, Soko said: How is what I said underestimating Hill’s ability? I said Miami schemes him a ton of touches and that makes him difficult to defend. Teams wish they’d put him out wide and not send him on these jet sweeps, motions, routes out of the backfield. It's not apples to apples, Hill is an alpha receiver, his touches come naturally because he's a freaking stud who can defeat 1-1 coverage, get off the line vs press, finds the spots in zone, etc.. There's a MASSIVE difference in scheming targets to give your stud the ball, and scheming targets because that's the only way said player can get the ball. Hill is one, I project Worthy to be the other, too frail to hold up vs NFL DB's. Eventually the speed wins, but if its 4 seconds after the ball is snapped and the QB is off his drop, won't matter anyway. Worthy wasn't a 1st round WR to me, late 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, Teen Girl Squad said: Because you can't necessarily just scheme any fast guy into the Hill role and get that type of production. Looking over the league the past decade seems to point to Hill being a unicorn rather than that skillset being under-utilized/poorly implemented. I don’t think you’re following the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: It's not apples to apples, Hill is an alpha receiver, his touches come naturally because he's a freaking stud who can defeat 1-1 coverage, get off the line vs press, finds the spots in zone, etc.. There's a MASSIVE difference in scheming targets to give your stud the ball, and scheming targets because that's the only way said player can get the ball. Hill is one, I project Worthy to be the other, too frail to hold up vs NFL DB's. Eventually the speed wins, but if it’s 4 seconds after the ball is snapped and the QB is off his drop, won't matter anyway. Worthy wasn't a 1st round WR to me, late 2nd. Coolio, I never said Hill wasn’t that either. I said Miami schemes him open a ton, sends him in motion, gives him routes out of the backfield, give him the jet sweeps, etc. Why? Because that’s an insanely effective way to use him, and it makes the offense harder to defend. Is he capable of lining up at X all day and winning straight up? Sure. But that’s not what Miami typically does with him. So yeah, there’s a difference in quality (obviously) between Hill and Worthy, but saying he’s going to get schemed touches is a pretty lackluster criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Just now, Soko said: Coolio, I never said Hill wasn’t that either. I said Miami schemes him open a ton, sends him in motion, gives him routes out of the backfield, give him the jet sweeps, etc. Why? Because that’s an insanely effective way to use him, and it makes the offense harder to defend. Is he capable of lining up at X all day and winning straight up? Sure. But that’s not what Miami typically does with him. So yeah, there’s a difference in quality (obviously) between Hill and Worthy, but saying he’s going to get schemed touches is a pretty lackluster criticism. You're looking at just the words and not understanding the underlying meaning. Having to have schemed touches = not being able to create them yourself. No different between a shot creator in basketball and someone who needs to have space made for them to get their shot off. Do coaches scheme plays for Curry or Lillard? Sure. Do they really need to? No, they'll get theirs by just being in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, Soko said: Coolio, I never said Hill wasn’t that either. I said Miami schemes him open a ton, sends him in motion, gives him routes out of the backfield, give him the jet sweeps, etc. Why? Because that’s an insanely effective way to use him, and it makes the offense harder to defend. Is he capable of lining up at X all day and winning straight up? Sure. But that’s not what Miami typically does with him. So yeah, there’s a difference in quality (obviously) between Hill and Worthy, but saying he’s going to get schemed touches is a pretty lackluster criticism. The problem in my eyes is that KC has a lot of guys that need to be schemed open now and not a lot of guys that can just win on their own. Kelce obviously will carry in that department and demand double teams, but I see Hollywood, Rice, and Worthy as all guys who really need help getting open right now. They aren't line up and consistently win guys which you really do need at some point as defenses will catch on. I can get the criticism. The Chiefs have pretty heavily dumped resources into WR's that can produce but aren't guys who you can heavily rely on. This is all fine for now because Kelce is Kelce, but if that isn't the case going forward... it could be troublesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: You're looking at just the words and not understanding the underlying meaning. Having to have schemed touches = not being able to create them yourself. No different between a shot creator in basketball and someone who needs to have space made for them to get their shot off. Do coaches scheme plays for Curry or Lillard? Sure. Do they really need to? No, they'll get theirs by just being in the game. Yes, which is why I said clearly there’s a skill discrepancy between Hill and Worthy (which again, is obvious lol). But you can see how lethal Hill is in an offense that is thriving off of his schemed touches/big play threat (along with other elements, to their credit), so saying that Worthy is going to need to be schemed in a similar fashion caps you out at, what, exactly? Also think you’re really overstating how badly Worthy’s going to be in terms of actual WR skills, it’s not like he’s Patterson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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