Worm Guts Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, swede700 said: They ultimately ended up with Cine, Ingram and Asamoah as a result of that Detroit trade (which included that GB trade)...I don't think it was great value, but I don't think it ended up being poor either or that he ended up being "played" as you say. Either way, I don't think it probably will make the top 5 of worst trades ever made by a Vikings GM. They also traded their own 2nd round pick. I definitely think it was poor value. Whether any of the players involved end up be worth anything is a different question. Edited November 3, 2023 by Worm Guts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: They also traded their own 2nd round pick. I definitely think it was poor value. Whether any of the players involved end up be worth anything is a different question. Exactly. Trading down 20 spots AND giving back a 2nd was getting played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Exactly. Trading down 20 spots AND giving back a 2nd was getting played. They moved up 12 spots from their pick in the 2nd (which they then traded to GB) and added the high 3rd (which became Asamoah). It's not nearly as bad as you portray it. It's not great, but it's not getting played, as far as I'm concerned. But, we'll never agree on that, so there's no point going back and forth. It's water under the bridge. Edited November 3, 2023 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, swede700 said: They moved up 12 spots from their pick in the 2nd (which they then traded to GB) and added the high 3rd (which became Asamoah). It's not nearly as bad as you portray it. It's not great, but it's not getting played, as far as I'm concerned. But, we'll never agree on that, so there's no point going back and forth. It's water under the bridge. If you go by the value chart, the Vikings were shorted by 230 points, or the equivalent to an early 3rd round pick. Edited November 3, 2023 by Worm Guts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: If you go by the value chart, the Vikings were shorted by 230 points, or the equivalent to an early 3rd round pick. Which value chart? The one created 30 years ago? I have no reason to doubt that the modern charts do a better job at tracking value...especially in a draft that, honestly, was pretty weak on elite talent. I think some people are just still po'ed that he passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis...I understand that, but I also think it clouds some of the objectivity. Am I saying he won the deal? Absolutely not. But, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some have claimed. I said that then and I continue to say that now. If you go by a 30-yr trade value chart, sure...he got smoked. But, it's not that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, swede700 said: Which value chart? The one created 30 years ago? I have no reason to doubt that the modern charts do a better job at tracking value...especially in a draft that, honestly, was pretty weak on elite talent. I think some people are just still po'ed that he passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis...I understand that, but I also think it clouds some of the objectivity. Am I saying he won the deal? Absolutely not. But, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some have claimed. I said that then and I continue to say that now. If you go by a 30-yr trade value chart, sure...he got smoked. But, it's not that simple. The value chart I looked at was for 2023. I just think it was pretty obviously bad value. There can be some variability based on talent available, but it’s not like the Vikings drafted any great players with those picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, swede700 said: Which value chart? The one created 30 years ago? I have no reason to doubt that the modern charts do a better job at tracking value...especially in a draft that, honestly, was pretty weak on elite talent. I think some people are just still po'ed that he passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis...I understand that, but I also think it clouds some of the objectivity. Am I saying he won the deal? Absolutely not. But, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some have claimed. I said that then and I continue to say that now. If you go by a 30-yr trade value chart, sure...he got smoked. But, it's not that simple. I mean, I don't think any of the TVC (JJ, Rich Hill, etc.) were favorable to Minnesota. I think most had Detroit as a pretty heavy grade lean there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc_vikingfan Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) The Lions trade was bad. You can't trade that far down and not get a future 1st or impact player. It was just the sky is falling mentally about trading in the division and so far neither player has been that player yet. Addison is on pace to pass them. Edited November 3, 2023 by dc_vikingfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, swede700 said: If you go by a 30-yr trade value chart, sure...he got smoked. But, it's not that simple It is that simple. It doesn’t matter that the JJ chart is 30 years old. It’s still the standard that the majority of teams base their picks’ value on. And you can see that by simply calculating other trades that take place. Most trades reflect the JJ and Hill models. Kwesi should have never given up the Vikings’ own 2nd. You should not lose value being the team that trades down. Edited November 4, 2023 by SemperFeist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 It was a horrendous trade, unless KAM was going to take Lewis Cine in the original draft position 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 KOC and KAM having fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Hockenson, Risner, Akers, Dobbs. Kwesi’s in season pickups have been fantastic and he deserves a lot of credit for making those happen. Those moves have fueled playoff pushes in both years. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Let Kwesi cook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP_allday2869 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said: Hockenson, Risner, Akers, Dobbs. Kwesi’s in season pickups have been fantastic and he deserves a lot of credit for making those happen. Those moves have fueled playoff pushes in both years. Not to mention the instant return on value in Addison, Pace, and I'd even say Blackmon. He also signed Powell who has been clutch when we have needed it most. Maybe Kwesi actually does know what he's doing... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 hours ago, AP_allday2869 said: Not to mention the instant return on value in Addison, Pace, and I'd even say Blackmon. He also signed Powell who has been clutch when we have needed it most. Maybe Kwesi actually does know what he's doing... Jac Roy looks good too. Jay Ward has made some boneheaded mistakes, but he's a fine special teams player. He's no Kris Boyd though. I'm hoping NaJee Thompson can step into that role. So, if we would've got better value on that trade, and took literally anyone else besides Lewis Cine (psst...Breece Hall!), KAM would be much more loved here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.