big_palooka Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 3 minutes ago, justwinbaby81 said: This is a 6 year vet as NFL QB that made a high school JV play, it wasn't a bad decision like throwing into double coverage for an INT let alone numerous times like Jimmy G. It was a one-time play that was 100% self inflicted based on fundamental ball security, I won't be blaming AP or Getsy or anyone else for that one play. That's a big difference to me. Same idea with the Carlson miss. It lies on the players. Turning the ball over was the one thing Minshew couldn't do. Missing a FG inside 50 is the one thing Carlson couldn't do. 2 plays brought our win percentage down 10%+ each, that was the difference today above all else. On those 2 plays (and to a lesser extent Zamirs fumble) I am not assigning blame to AP, I am holding the players accountable. That's what my initial post was focused on, because I think that was above all else the difference between a W and an L. AP deserves some blame but there's plenty more to go around. Trust me, if AP went for it on 4th and 1 and we didn't convert there wouldn't have been a heap of praise around here, so he's damned either way. If anything I'm more annoyed AP didn't challenge the Tucker 3rd down which I've seen nobody else mention here, so you and others putting this on AP can add that fuel to your fire. That was bigger to me than either 4th and 1 and I've said why. If Minshew continues to do self-inflicted BS and the coaches make no changes, then yes blame coaches. AP selected Minshew over AOC yes, but that's a lose/lose situation. AOC is just as susceptible to these mistakes. I addressed the 4th down thinking, nobody can defend punting there. It makes me nervous that maybe adding old school coaches like Coughlin isn't benefiting. They weren't exactly known for being aggressive in those situations. Don't buy that. I think we'd all agree with the call to go for it. If they failed, we could talk about play call or execution which would be fair to question. Not going for it is feckless. If you trust your defense after a punt, you trust them at the 43, period. Your offense hadn't shown good enough to sustain a drive. You're in plus territory you go for it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwinbaby81 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Just now, big_palooka said: Don't buy that. I think we'd all agree with the call to go for it. If they failed, we could talk about play call or execution which would be fair to question. Not going for it is feckless. If you trust your defense after a punt, you trust them at the 43, period. Your offense hadn't shown good enough to sustain a drive. You're in plus territory you go for it. Again, not getting an argument from me. 100% should have went for it. I'd argue it shows MORE confidence in the defense to go for it. But let's no act like AP would be held in high regard around here if we got the L no matter what happened on either 4th and 1. Everyone's opinion is already predetermined, now it's a year of everyone digging in their heels. Tale as old as time around here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justwinning Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: For those who don’t live in Southern California, It’s been abnormally hot this week. Gametime yesterday it was around 114 degrees yesterday Plus the fire out in the desert made the air murky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 2 hours ago, justwinbaby81 said: Again, not getting an argument from me. 100% should have went for it. I'd argue it shows MORE confidence in the defense to go for it. But let's no act like AP would be held in high regard around here if we got the L no matter what happened on either 4th and 1. Everyone's opinion is already predetermined, now it's a year of everyone digging in their heels. Tale as old as time around here. I try not to overreact to the first couple weeks of the season. New coaches, players all gelling. Week 3 they have a run of winnable games. If it doesn't start to click then, then we have a problem. Losing to Denver would be a death kneel for me. Have to keep that streak alive. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 47 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I try not to overreact to the first couple weeks of the season. New coaches, players all gelling. Week 3 they have a run of winnable games. If it doesn't start to click then, then we have a problem. Losing to Denver would be a death kneel for me. Have to keep that streak alive. At what point do you pull Minshew in favor of AOC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongJonSilver Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 (edited) First take. I'll try not to suck. Check the tape on the Minshew gaff. The ball came back catawampus on, I think, a quick bubble or tunnel screen. https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/motion/2024/0908/dm_240908_minshew_fumble/dm_240908_minshew_fumble_360p30_1464k.mp4 Between 11 and 12 seconds. That is NOT a usable snap. GMin tried to right it and get it out bang-bang, as a competitor will want to do. He needed to understand it was a hot mess at receipt, and eat it then and there, instead of in mid-throw, when he understood he could not find the handle, and tried to shut it down after starting the throw. But I can understand him trying to overcome it in the moment, and failing. It was the evil delivery that led to that ****show moment, & James wears the collar, imo. I love me some A-James, but take ahold of that thing man, and SNAP it nose first ffs! It's a hot potato, and we're trying to use it. Frankly, the gun snap should not be ****ed up when we're in gun all day, and our vet center has a fat wad in his pocket from this off season? ...**** happens in game 1, however. You make the biggest leap from G1 to G2. I'm looking forward to that. Edited September 9 by LongJonSilver 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 1 hour ago, RaidersForever said: At what point do you pull Minshew in favor of AOC? Does rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic matter? Neither is worthy of a starting job and getting the team anywhere. I guess when the losses pile up and the offense simply isn't effective you try to give it a spark with AOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Does rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic matter? Neither is worthy of a starting job and getting the team anywhere. I guess when the losses pile up and the offense simply isn't effective you try to give it a spark with AOC. O’Connell seems to be a much better fit for what the team wants to do and how the team wants to play if we go by that last game. I think he could make a decent difference and at least get the offence somewhat cohesive. Either that or we’ve got to take the leash off Minshew a little. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 29 minutes ago, Darbsk said: O’Connell seems to be a much better fit for what the team wants to do and how the team wants to play if we go by that last game. I think he could make a decent difference and at least get the offence somewhat cohesive. Either that or we’ve got to take the leash off Minshew a little. During preseason I would have said otherwise. The amount of role outs we snapped was abnormally high. But once the season started....it's like all that was gone. Weird. After watching the first game I agree with you. If Getsy wants to play in the pocket, AOC has proven he can be decisive quickly. Besides, we have the short option weapons that are begging to be used. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 1 hour ago, Darbsk said: O’Connell seems to be a much better fit for what the team wants to do and how the team wants to play if we go by that last game. I think he could make a decent difference and at least get the offence somewhat cohesive. Either that or we’ve got to take the leash off Minshew a little. I think if AOC started that game he'd been sacked so much we'd all be saying we should have started Minshew. lol YES' AOC is better in the pocket but still a statue for Mack and Bosa to tee off at. Miller's rust was evident with his anchor yesterday. On skates but he'll get back to form but AOC would have gotten twisted up in that pocket. Pass Rushers are Hard to find but Chargers have really good one's when healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1RAIDER FAN Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 10 minutes ago, G said: I think if AOC started that game he'd been sacked so much we'd all be saying we should have started Minshew. lol YES' AOC is better in the pocket but still a statue for Mack and Bosa to tee off at. Miller's rust was evident with his anchor yesterday. On skates but he'll get back to form but AOC would have gotten twisted up in that pocket. Pass Rushers are Hard to find but Chargers have really good one's when healthy. I think the Chargers were disciplined yesterday. Not only did they get pressure from the outside, but they kept their lanes, not allowing Minshew to step up and scramble. The one memorable time was when Minshew went to run and just barely got tripped up. That would have been a game changer first down AOC wouldn't dream of making. They seemed to have a gameplan of keeping him in the pocket which limits what Minshew's advantage over AOC was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 5 hours ago, RaidersForever said: At what point do you pull Minshew in favor of AOC? Today. Our best bet long term is starting AOC to get some additional backup seasoning and purging assets like Adams for the 2025 and 2026 classes. I'm comfortable enough with Bowers, Meyers, Tucker, and Mayer going forward long term that Adams becomes a fancy redundancy for us to keep. They're not "better" but Adams is a short term play now. Go long. Keeping Minshew in signals they're going to try to win, which might backfire on us in a big way. Minshew isn't good either, but he's more likely to pull some nonsense off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 36 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Today. Our best bet long term is starting AOC to get some additional backup seasoning and purging assets like Adams for the 2025 and 2026 classes. I'm comfortable enough with Bowers, Meyers, Tucker, and Mayer going forward long term that Adams becomes a fancy redundancy for us to keep. They're not "better" but Adams is a short term play now. Go long. Keeping Minshew in signals they're going to try to win, which might backfire on us in a big way. Minshew isn't good either, but he's more likely to pull some nonsense off. Here's my thing I have no problem with men shoe continuing to play if they actually let him be Gardner Minshew and play that Way. If they want to do the whole game manager thing go get Aiden O'Connell and start that guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 7 hours ago, LongJonSilver said: First take. I'll try not to suck. Check the tape on the Minshew gaff. The ball came back catawampus on, I think, a quick bubble or tunnel screen. https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/motion/2024/0908/dm_240908_minshew_fumble/dm_240908_minshew_fumble_360p30_1464k.mp4 Between 11 and 12 seconds. That is NOT a usable snap. GMin tried to right it and get it out bang-bang, as a competitor will want to do. He needed to understand it was a hot mess at receipt, and eat it then and there, instead of in mid-throw, when he understood he could not find the handle, and tried to shut it down after starting the throw. But I can understand him trying to overcome it in the moment, and failing. It was the evil delivery that led to that ****show moment, & James wears the collar, imo. I love me some A-James, but take ahold of that thing man, and SNAP it nose first ffs! It's a hot potato, and we're trying to use it. Frankly, the gun snap should not be ****ed up when we're in gun all day, and our vet center has a fat wad in his pocket from this off season? ...**** happens in game 1, however. You make the biggest leap from G1 to G2. I'm looking forward to that. Meh imo that’s on gard dogg snap was dam near in the #’s not over his head, rolling on the ground or way off to any side. Gard just couldn’t grip and rip it like he had too. Never really had a good handle on it. James had his own f ups but imo that snap wasn’t on him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 7 hours ago, Darbsk said: O’Connell seems to be a much better fit for what the team wants to do and how the team wants to play if we go by that last game. I think he could make a decent difference and at least get the offence somewhat cohesive. Either that or we’ve got to take the leash off Minshew a little. This. Pick a lane. You either want your QB to stay on script, get the ball out quick with accuracy on short to intermediate plays and into your playmakers hands which AOC does better or you let Minshew do his thing. My preference would’ve been AOC from the start as I see more upside with him, he does fundamental things better and I think he plays with rhythm (something Minshew totally lacks). But if you go with Minshew, you have to adapt your offense to try to play to his strengths. Putting it simply - they are 2 very different QBs. It is wholly irrational to design 1 identical scheme for both. And I don’t necessarily think AOC would have taken more sacks. Minshew moved into pressure and I would’ve expected AOC to find his open targets earlier. Because receivers were open on a number of plays where Minshew went walkabout… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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