Week 1 GDT: Broncos @ Seattle

[BroncoSojia]

35 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I say this with the caveat that Nix is NOT Peyton Manning. 

However, a comparison worth making is that, like Nix, Peyton had a lot of starting experience from an upper-tier (at the time) college program that played against better than most of D1 completion. And Peyton has made his position perfectly clear that the best teacher is experience. Peyton threw 28 INTs his rookie year and went to the Pro Bowl his second. 

So let’s give Nix a chance to learn and adapt a little bit. 

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this from a fan of a team with a struggling rookie QB, I'd be rich.

[AKRNA]

I'm really curious about Riley Moss. Did anyone watch him much? It was pretty obvious they went after him but my impression was he held up pretty well. Was that impression correct?

Also, I think it's time to resign/extend Cooper. He's become quite the impact player, one of very very few on the roster. He's a UFA next year.

Edited September 9 by AKRNA

[The Helicopter]

We are in for a long season…

[lomaxgrUK]

I think it's clear that it was all too much for Bo yesterday. He's not the first, he won't be the last. Go look at the record of rookie QB's in week 1 over the last 20 years, and you will see how ugly it is. 

That Seattle Defense is fantastically Coached and they were really impressive, especially on the back end. That said ...

... There are some concerns for sure, even if it's one game. You can just see the physical limitations when throwing the ball downfield. The margins for error are so small, in that his decisions have to be so good because he just doesn't have the physical gifts to bail him out. I think we all saw that the decision making was anything but good. He was incredibly lucky to walk away with just 2 INTs, 1 of which was simply horrific.

We absolutely cannot bench the kid. CANNOT do that. We are in this now, and Bo has to learn every snap of every week. 

Some other quick notes:

- Javonte commented after the game about the field and how slippy it was. I thought he looked poor. No slickness in his cuts, very heavy legged. Got tackled in space by players much smaller than him in open field; not good

- The Defense got gashed in the 3rd on the ground. Again, credit the Seahawks, in particular Walker who plays with great pad level. But our Defense played excellent for 3 Quarters, all the while dealing with their own Offense being appalling (SIX straight 3 and outs at one point)

- This team would be a problem if they can play with a lead. The pass rush looks fantastic, both on the outside and inside. Chance would be a fine thing!

- A few people have mentioned this; WHERE is the athleticism on Offense? Marvin Mims Jr didn't get any looks, but that said, he didn't look explosive in the return game so ... Sure, our guys are big, but we are cramping the field for a rookie QB. Hardly helpful, is it?

- The run game, again, is a concern. They are dealing with loaded boxes, and CBs playing at the LOS because of the fact it's a rookie QB with limited athleticism outwide. But, with all the money spent, at some point you've got to impose your will on the Defense. They (still) aren't doing this

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I'm really curious about Riley Moss. Did anyone watch him much? It was pretty obvious they went after him but my impression was he held up pretty well. Was that impression correct?

Also, I think it's time to resign/extend Cooper. He's become quite the impact player, one of very very few on the roster. He's a UFA next year.

He played well, sans a couple of missed tackles. He had three really, really well thrown balls beat him when he was in good coverage. I think there is a lot to like there. I guess when the deep speed is tested, we'll see. Let's be honest - that's what we are all worried about.

 

[lomaxgrUK]

"After getting overly optimistic prior to the last couple of seasons I really tried to temper expectations and expected a loss in Seattle anyway. That said...

The Good- Special teams really in all facets. The new kickoff and coverage seemed good, Lutz made his kicks look easy, punted way too much but looked great when doing so and directly influenced the scoreboard. Tremon Smith continues to show why he's worth his roster spot. 

Zach Allen was awesome, the only guy on the line that is a true difference maker. Played all but 2 snaps as well. 

As a whole, I feel like the secondary played really well. PS2 held DK in check, Jaquan was in the backfield and, outside of a BS PI (the announcing crew as well as Todd Davis noted that you're allowed to hand check once the QB leaves the pocket) he was solid and Moss I thought held up outside of losing the edge on the Walker TD. He gave up the game-sealing first down to Lockett but played it about as well as one could and the WR made a great one handed stab to seal it.

The bad- This offense as a whole. Just no dynamism at all. Horizontal offenses don't work when you don't have players who can make dudes miss in space. Marvin Mims may not be a great receiver but he at least has some juice to his game which was very much needed. Same with Troy Franklin. Seattle didn't respect the deep ball, were triggering downhill as soon as the ball was released and making sure tackles. Even if it's just to keep the defense honest, you need to sprinkle in some deep shots in todays NFL.

After starting the game off with their hair on fire, the DL lost it's footing, particularly in the 2nd half/3rd quarter. No idea why the signing of Malcom Roach and trading for Franklin-Myers seemed to quell the need in the trenches. Outside of QB, it was my biggest concern going into the draft and remained so going into week one. We really need impact players on the interior.

The Ugly- I'll preface this by saying that I was not a fan of the Nix selection initially but understood it and believe that Sean can get the most out of him. From his interviews and hearing him speak, I do believe he can become a very good starting QB in this league. That said... oof. Another reason not to buy into preseason hype. Clearly didn't look comfortable throwing downfield. In his defense, there were a few drops that effected offensive rhythym, the run game was non-existent and the receivers were not getting clear separation. He also just missed a few throws, missed some reads and just made bad decisions. I felt like I had lower expectations that most and it was still a disappointment."

 

Thought I'd put this in the correct thread for @rcpbawler

[rcpbawler]

Now, as far as this idea that Stidham should be starting over Bo...

It's absolutely wild to me. Jarret Stidham is a BACKUP quarterback in this league. He was a free agent a year ago and was valued as a BACKUP quarterback. He has never shown to be anything more than a backup QB in his 6 years in the league. There was an open competition between he and Bo throughout training camp. As expected, Stidham started out in pole position but, by all reports throughout camp, Box caught up and eventually started outplaying the ole vet. 

Bo Nix won the starting job. Now, you could say "of course he did, he was Sean's pet project and first round pick!" and, sure, maybe. But again, all reports were, by the end of camp, Bo looked like the better QB.

He's still a rookie and has a lot to learn, clearly, but there isn't a world in which I agree that Bo sitting this year would be more advantageous. He seemingly has a grip on the offense, he has more game reps through college than any other QB (yes I know CFB is different than NFL), he just needs to understand the speed of the game, which you don't get from watching Jarret Stidham from the sideline. 

I don't think this is a very good team right now and if choosing between going 7-10 with Stidham or 5-12 with Bo, I'll take the latter. If getting live game reps hurts his confidence and he becomes a shattered QB, guess what? He was never going to be a great NFL quarterback in the first place.

[rcpbawler]

15 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

- Javonte commented after the game about the field and how slippy it was. I thought he looked poor. No slickness in his cuts, very heavy legged. Got tackled in space by players much smaller than him in open field; not good

- This team would be a problem if they can play with a lead. The pass rush looks fantastic, both on the outside and inside. Chance would be a fine thing!

 

 

Didn't mention this but agree,about Javonte looking sluggish. I was about the biggest fan of his coming out as you'll see and wish him the best but not ideal. Hopefully it was the turf...

I thought Cooper, Browning and Bonitto looked great. Didn't notice Elliss when he was out there. If this team ever had an offense that could get up a couple of scores, the defense could be solid...

[lomaxgrUK]

21 minutes ago, rcpbawler said:

Didn't mention this but agree,about Javonte looking sluggish. I was about the biggest fan of his coming out as you'll see and wish him the best but not ideal. Hopefully it was the turf...

You saw the difference in pop when Estime had that really good carry, only for him to decide, "**** it, as a 5th round rookie with my first ever NFL carry, I'm going to HURDLE as a 230lbs RB with one hand on the football".

I was floored when they let him back out there. I guess that shows just how bad it was for us.

What I didn't mention was just how disappointing our YAC was. I give plenty of credit to the Seahawks for that, just like Archeleta did in the commentary. But Nix put enough balls out there in stride for SOMEONE to make a play. Again, hopefully that's the turf because sans Walker III, the Seahawks were the same really.

[broncos67]

Watched the whole game (very difficult with a 2 y/o, how did none of you tell me this would happen?) and yeah, it wasn't pretty. Not expecting much out of Nix, and like I've said previously, I'll measure the success of the year on how well Nix progresses. Hopefully the fanbase learns to exercise patience, but I doubt it. Already seeing morons thinking Nix should be CJ Stroud.

Now, for the game. Obviously Nix looked poor. He locked on to Sutton a bunch, and it caused him to make some dumb throws we didn't see in preseason. Running game looked awful. Javonte is cooked. Time to find another RB. The offensive playmakers are gross on this team. Vele is useful and looked the best of the bunch. Mims was nowhere to be found. Guys dropping passes that could've kept drives going. I am already banging the drum for a high pick on a WR next year. There's no skill position talent here that can't be upgraded on.

OL looked okay in pass blocking I thought. Nix has to make some throws quicker than he did. Run blocking was gross and running the ball in general was atrocious.

The playcalling from Mr. 1st round pick HC was terrible. Flat out awful. Execution wasn't there either, but yikes. I am not a Payton fan and didn't like the R1 pick given up for him. Needs to start winning games sometime to justify the obscene cost to get him.

Defensively we looked solid until the 6 straight 3 and outs and we got gassed. Not surprising. Surtain looked great. Moss looked better than expected. Jonathan Cooper looked the best of the OLB bunch and the DL got some good push. A lot to be encouraged about there I thought.

On to next week. Going to be another tough challenge with a stingy PIT defense. Hopefully the offensive brainchild can scheme some plays for Nix to be successful. Maybe he'll use the fastest WR on the team that we traded up for. Who knows!

[Broncofan]

4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I think it's clear that it was all too much for Bo yesterday. He's not the first, he won't be the last. Go look at the record of rookie QB's in week 1 over the last 20 years, and you will see how ugly it is. 

That Seattle Defense is fantastically Coached and they were really impressive, especially on the back end. That said ...

... There are some concerns for sure, even if it's one game. You can just see the physical limitations when throwing the ball downfield. The margins for error are so small, in that his decisions have to be so good because he just doesn't have the physical gifts to bail him out. I think we all saw that the decision making was anything but good. He was incredibly lucky to walk away with just 2 INTs, 1 of which was simply horrific.

We absolutely cannot bench the kid. CANNOT do that. We are in this now, and Bo has to learn every snap of every week. 

Some other quick notes:

- Javonte commented after the game about the field and how slippy it was. I thought he looked poor. No slickness in his cuts, very heavy legged. Got tackled in space by players much smaller than him in open field; not good

- The Defense got gashed in the 3rd on the ground. Again, credit the Seahawks, in particular Walker who plays with great pad level. But our Defense played excellent for 3 Quarters, all the while dealing with their own Offense being appalling (SIX straight 3 and outs at one point)

- This team would be a problem if they can play with a lead. The pass rush looks fantastic, both on the outside and inside. Chance would be a fine thing!

- A few people have mentioned this; WHERE is the athleticism on Offense? Marvin Mims Jr didn't get any looks, but that said, he didn't look explosive in the return game so ... Sure, our guys are big, but we are cramping the field for a rookie QB. Hardly helpful, is it?

- The run game, again, is a concern. They are dealing with loaded boxes, and CBs playing at the LOS because of the fact it's a rookie QB with limited athleticism outwide. But, with all the money spent, at some point you've got to impose your will on the Defense. They (still) aren't doing this

He played well, sans a couple of missed tackles. He had three really, really well thrown balls beat him when he was in good coverage. I think there is a lot to like there. I guess when the deep speed is tested, we'll see. Let's be honest - that's what we are all worried about.

 

 

3 hours ago, rcpbawler said:

Didn't mention this but agree,about Javonte looking sluggish. I was about the biggest fan of his coming out as you'll see and wish him the best but not ideal. Hopefully it was the turf...

I thought Cooper, Browning and Bonitto looked great. Didn't notice Elliss when he was out there. If this team ever had an offense that could get up a couple of scores, the defense could be solid...

 

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

Watched the whole game (very difficult with a 2 y/o, how did none of you tell me this would happen?) and yeah, it wasn't pretty. Not expecting much out of Nix, and like I've said previously, I'll measure the success of the year on how well Nix progresses. Hopefully the fanbase learns to exercise patience, but I doubt it. Already seeing morons thinking Nix should be CJ Stroud.

Now, for the game. Obviously Nix looked poor. He locked on to Sutton a bunch, and it caused him to make some dumb throws we didn't see in preseason. Running game looked awful. Javonte is cooked. Time to find another RB. The offensive playmakers are gross on this team. Vele is useful and looked the best of the bunch. Mims was nowhere to be found. Guys dropping passes that could've kept drives going. I am already banging the drum for a high pick on a WR next year. There's no skill position talent here that can't be upgraded on.

OL looked okay in pass blocking I thought. Nix has to make some throws quicker than he did. Run blocking was gross and running the ball in general was atrocious.

The playcalling from Mr. 1st round pick HC was terrible. Flat out awful. Execution wasn't there either, but yikes. I am not a Payton fan and didn't like the R1 pick given up for him. Needs to start winning games sometime to justify the obscene cost to get him.

Defensively we looked solid until the 6 straight 3 and outs and we got gassed. Not surprising. Surtain looked great. Moss looked better than expected. Jonathan Cooper looked the best of the OLB bunch and the DL got some good push. A lot to be encouraged about there I thought.

On to next week. Going to be another tough challenge with a stingy PIT defense. Hopefully the offensive brainchild can scheme some plays for Nix to be successful. Maybe he'll use the fastest WR on the team that we traded up for. Who knows!

-Not to beat a dead horse but when Jeudy was traded that had to be with the understanding we’d use a guy with separation and YAC ability to replace him.    If it wasn’t going to be Franklin right  away it had to be Mims.    The whole idea Payton could put out 4 big bodies with no separation or YAC ability is a real problem.    
 

-Payton’s love affair with Trautman and Lil’Jordan Humphrey when we go to throw augments the above problem.    Neither guy belongs as a starting receiving TE or top 3 WR.    
 

-If he’s healthy then we’ve got a problem with Dulcich.     Zero burst yesterday.    It may be that the injuries have sapped the critical piece of athleticism that made his ceiling above average.    Then again the lack of home run threat may just have created no space to operate.     But if Dulcich can’t make guys miss….we may as well find out if Krull or Parham can help.    Not week 2 but something to look for as season progresses.  
 

-Same deal with Javonte Williams.   He wasn’t really the problem but I didn’t like seeing him lack that extra gear.  There were about 3-4 runs where he left yards on the field the old Javonte would have burst through holes that closed as he got there.     At this stage he should have full explosion 18+ months post-ACL so if he doesn’t it’s not likely to change.   

Edited September 9 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Re: the D - I can’t criticize the D for collapsing in the run game in the 2H, the O has to stay on the field.    
 

Having said that I was disappointed with the D again with RB pass coverage.   It’s such a perennial weakness and we never seem to realize we need more talent at the ILB position.    
 

Secondary wise the one guy I thought who underperformed was PJ Locke.    Jones was a presence in both run support and coverage but Locke missed 3-4 tackles (Geno TD was the big one IIRC that you have to make there).    

Riley Moss got schooled a bit on boundary back shoulder throws but he was actually in position.  If he can stay sticky then breaking up the passes / going for a pick is not that far away.    He was absolutely in perfect position on the last catch that was an unreal grab by Lockett 

The pass rushers were great until they wore down.    Browning & Cooper had their way in the 1H.    Hopefully they can build on that.   
 

D gets an A+ 1H and B- for 2H (if they did that with a functional O then it’s a D but they just got worn down).   

Edited September 9 by Broncofan

[broncosfan_101]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

Watched the whole game (very difficult with a 2 y/o, how did none of you tell me this would happen?) and yeah, it wasn't pretty.

😂😂😂

[broncosfan_101]

Not sure why I hadn’t made this connection before last night, but:

In hockey, it’s been found that the ideal number of games for a young player out of junior to play in the AHL is between 40-50. After that, their ceiling really starts to become limited, no matter how well they perform in those games. For instance, Player A scores 40 points in his first 50 games, immediately gets called up to the NHL. Player B scores 40 points in his first 50 games, but doesn’t get called up and plays another 50 games down there. It doesn’t matter if Player B scores 40, 50, 60, 85 points in those next 50 games, he is less likely to find success at the NHL level in his career.

The prevailing theory is that players become too accustomed to AHL pace. They’ll grab the puck in a certain spot, see a defender in a certain spot, and learn that they have 0.26* seconds to make the play they want (*please note that the numbers I’m using in this post are completely random. Descriptive purposes only.) When they get to the NHL, they’ll have 0.22 seconds to make the same play. AHL pace is a great stepping stone for most players coming out of juniors, where they had 0.38 seconds. But after 50 games at this level, the 0.26 second muscle memory starts to burn into their mind/bodies too deeply. The mental/physical processing starts to stagnate, and it’s tougher to adapt to NHL speed after that. 
 

I bring this up because Bo Nix made more NCAA starts than any QB in history. I don’t know how much this theory would translate from hockey to other sports, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s a real thing for our quarterback moving forward.

[thebestever6]

I was shocked how bad offensive play was league wide 16 qbs threw under 200 yards, the average was 186 yards passing just piss poor play.

it really makes me appreciate peyton manning more setting league records opening week 2013. I don't think I'll ever see anything like that as a bronco fan in my lifetime. 

I can't believe mims barely played yesterday we trade Jeudy because he's eating into mims reps and Mims gets 12 reps? I mean I just have that feeling had we of beat that team deep yesterday it would of opened everything up.

[Dbrog24]

I've been thinking more about what we saw and it kind of clicked for me watching the night game. I saw a bunch of parallels with our offense and the Lions, which makes sense since Sean was Campbell's mentor and they still refer to each other a lot. The Lions had a crapload of those lateral passes behind the LOS but the differences are we don't have a massive and talented offensive line like theirs, and Mclaughlin doesn't have the speed or bend of Gibbs, and Javonte isn't showing an ability to break tackles like Montgomery. It's a fundamental issue that will prevent us from succeeding if that continues. 

The other parallels I saw were the Lions throwing a bunch of passes to the side hashes, which of course is pretty standard, but also shows the necessity of the QB taking off and running to keep the defense at least somewhat back (both us and them weren't taking almost any deepshots). There's a reason we started to see success when Bo started running. Idk I'm sure there are other similarities but I'm curious what you guys think about that?