Solo: A Star Wars Story

[Broncofan]

Honestly if the movie is just OK I’ll be happy.  Directorial changes and reshoots as extensive as Solo has needed rarely end well.  

[43M]

7 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Honestly if the movie is just OK I’ll be happy.  Directorial changes and reshoots as extensive as Solo has needed rarely end well.  

Yep....look at Justice League.

[SteelKing728]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:17 PM, Bullet Club said:

Yeah, I'm out on this. Don't need more forced nonsense shoved my throat like "droid rights".

If its just a rogue droid, then that's okay with me.

If its going to push an agenda, then yeah...I probably won't even see it, given the political garbage Disney used in TLJ.

[Oregon Ducks]

35 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

If its just a rogue droid, then that's okay with me.

If its going to push an agenda, then yeah...I probably won't even see it, given the political garbage Disney used in TLJ.

[Calvert28]

Rian Johnson just said the movie was great. So I'll wait till I see it on Starz or Cinemax or something. 

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Rian Johnson just said the movie was great. So I'll wait till I see it on Starz or Cinemax or something. 

You're on the wrong side of history with your Last Jedi hate. 

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're on the wrong side of history with your Last Jedi hate. 

Yea me and the other 53% who hated it will just have to learn to live with crappy sequels put out by a company that doesn't care about the fans. Gotta wonder though how a moviefrom a timeless series arguably the most popular series ever that is so widespread with one of the most popular characters returning after a 30 years hiatus couldn't even crack the top 10 of highest grossing movies of all-time. I mean given the cast, the anticipation, the media hype, all the money dumped into the CGI, this should have broke the Top 5 easy,  I mean hell look at Avatar, that story was complete crap, but look at how well it did, same with Jurassic World. But hell it couldnt even beat out Age of Ultron or Furious 7, and just barely beat out Frozen who didnt have a fan base to begin with.

How is a movie that is so iconic and so well received, with an almost endless market opportunities with toys, accessories, theme parks and everything to fuel its hype couldn't even break the top 10. Hmmm gotta wonder. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

How is a movie that is so iconic and so well received, with an almost endless market opportunities with toys, accessories, theme parks and everything to fuel its hype couldn't even break the top 10. Hmmm gotta wonder. 

The same way The Thing (1982) was widely panned and bombed.  Same way a small sect of Star Wars fans HATED Empire Strikes Back.  Same way Shawshank Redemption bombed.  Same way The Wizard of Oz bombed.  Same way Citizen Kane bombed and was panned by critics.  Same way Blade Runner bombed.  Same way nobody liked nor even saw It's A Wonderful Life and didn't even become popular until it became free due to trademarking mistakes and is now a widely beloved classic.  Same way Fight Club bombed and was panned. 

And you're talking about a movie considered (by you) to be a failure because it couldn't crack the top 10?  Lol.  Only somebody blinded by hate could call a movie that made 1.3 billion dollars globally. 

You ready for me to REALLY burst your pretentious bubble? 

A New Hope made 1.5 million in its opening weekend and totaled 322 million domestically. 
You ready for this?
Empire Strikes Back made 6.4 million its opening weekend, but only made 290 million domestically. 

Empire Strikes Back also had people saying the story sucked.  People complained about Luke not being with Leia.  People tried to pretend Vader was lying about being Luke's father and pointing out plot holes and how much the story sucked. 

It's ALMOST like this has happened before in the Star Wars universe, and it's ALMOST like this sort of thing happens all the time.  But what do I know?  I just provided half a dozen examples.  Holler at me in 10 years and we'll pick this conversation up again because that's where my point lies...

[Calvert28]

3 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

The same way The Thing (1982) was widely panned and bombed.  Same way a small sect of Star Wars fans HATED Empire Strikes Back.  Same way Shawshank Redemption bombed.  Same way The Wizard of Oz bombed.  Same way Citizen Kane bombed and was panned by critics.  Same way Blade Runner bombed.  Same way nobody liked nor even saw It's A Wonderful Life and didn't even become popular until it became free due to trademarking mistakes and is now a widely beloved classic.  Same way Fight Club bombed and was panned. 

And you're talking about a movie considered (by you) to be a failure because it couldn't crack the top 10?  Lol.  Only somebody blinded by hate could call a movie that made 1.3 billion dollars globally. 

You ready for me to REALLY burst your pretentious bubble? 

A New Hope made 1.5 million in its opening weekend and totaled 322 million domestically. 
You ready for this?
Empire Strikes Back made 6.4 million its opening weekend, but only made 290 million domestically. 

Empire Strikes Back also had people saying the story sucked.  People complained about Luke not being with Leia.  People tried to pretend Vader was lying about being Luke's father and pointing out plot holes and how much the story sucked. 

It's ALMOST like this has happened before in the Star Wars universe, and it's ALMOST like this sort of thing happens all the time.  But what do I know?  I just provided half a dozen examples.  Holler at me in 10 years and we'll pick this conversation up again because that's where my point lies...

Except this movie wasnt panned by critics bud. They were bought and paid to say this was the greatest thing since sound implementation. And the audience still hated it. 

I agree that there are movies that can get bashed by both critics and fans alike and still go on to have amazing success as a cult classic. Such as my personal favorite the Big Lebowski. 

But this isn't one of those cases. Movies who have a large market appeal with things to sell before and after the movie like I said before with toys, spin off shows, accessories for fans to buy typically have greater success in theatres then their more artistic counterparts in art films. 

ESB, citizen kane, these other old movies you speak of. These are movies from completely different eras with different expectations. 

Movies today that can be complete crap story can still have major success if they have major appeal. Case in point Jurassic World, Furious 7, and Avatar.

The Last Jedi had everything going for it. It was impossible to fail, it checked all boxes for a movie that was due for massive success including media hype that gave it all kinds of stars and praises and called it a cultural phenom and whatever BS they said. Hell the appeal to kids alone should have this in the top 3 of top grossing films. There is something wrong with why this underachieved so much. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

Except this movie wasnt panned by critics bud. They were bought and paid to say this was the greatest thing since sound implementation. And the audience still hated it. 

If they were bought and paid to say it, does that not render their opinion null and void?  Thanks for making that one easy.  Please stop calling me bud and cut out the passive aggressive nonsense.  I'm getting too old for it.  I'm not trying to start an obnoxious fight or discussion.  It was an innocuous proclamation that started this and I'm not going to get sucked into a pissing match.  Quit the obnoxious bickering or I'll quit the discussion.

I agree that there are movies that can get bashed by both critics and fans alike and still go on to have amazing success as a cult classic. Such as my personal favorite the Big Lebowski. 

So you admit that time can and might tell a different story with TLJ.  Good.  Progress.  Because that's the only point I'm trying to make.  The whole debate is rendered moot at this point.  Let's not do this.  Let's be friends, remember? 

But this isn't one of those cases. Movies who have a large market appeal with things to sell before and after the movie like I said before with toys, spin off shows, accessories for fans to buy typically have greater success in theatres then their more artistic counterparts in art films. 

So it didn't count with A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back either?  Need another example?  Prisoner of Azkaban made less than Sorcerer's Stone AND Chamber of Secrets worldwide.  It made less than any of the other Harry Potter movies, and yet it is widely considered the best of them.  That's two examples right there.  Harry Potter and Star Wars itself. 

ESB, citizen kane, these other old movies you speak of. These are movies from completely different eras with different expectations. 

Doesn't matter.  Great movies have frequently taken time to reach the appreciation they need. 

Movies today that can be complete crap story can still have major success if they have major appeal. Case in point Jurassic World, Furious 7, and Avatar.

What does this have to do with anything?  We're arguing whether or not TLJ will be considered a good movie.  What do bad movies have to do with the discussion?  Absolutely nothing. 

The Last Jedi had everything going for it. It was impossible to fail, it checked all boxes for a movie that was due for massive success including media hype that gave it all kinds of stars and praises and called it a cultural phenom and whatever BS they said. Hell the appeal to kids alone should have this in the top 3 of top grossing films. There is something wrong with why this underachieved so much. 

You've continued to neglect the fact that the same EXACT thing happened to Empire Strikes Back.  Do you think it's possible... It's very important that you eliminate every single ounce of bias here and look at this question with an open mind.  Do you think it's possible that a down point in a trilogy can impact positive word of mouth in a massive appeal type of movie?  Empire Strikes Back featured Han getting frozen in carbonite.  Luke lost a hand.  Vader beat him down.  Luke was crushed by the twist.  THE EMPIRE STRUCK BACK!  In The Last Jedi, the Resistance was all but crushed.  Luke was a shell of his former self.  Kylo Ren didn't return to the light side; Luke Skywalker DIED.  Does this or does this not POSSIBLY impact positive word of mouth?  Does a disappointing ending or does it not impact things?

Before you use Infinity Wars, note... 19 movies built up to Infinity Wars.  You had Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and literally a dozen other characters in it to draw audiences to it.  Without spoiling the ending of Infinity Wars, do you or do you not think that the conclusion, with what is bound to be a less-depressing ending point, will perform even better? 

 

[Mox]

4 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're on the wrong side of history with your Last Jedi hate. 

This is a bold claim. Anything to back it up? It’s even lower received now than it was at the time by anyone I’ve ever talked to about it.

[MacReady]

10 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

This is a bold claim. Anything to back it up? It’s even lower received now than it was at the time by anyone I’ve ever talked to about it.

Yes.  Lol.  The next two posts I made in this thread.  Can't prove it obviously, but I think we will start to see it a LOT differently after the next one is released.  I expect that cantina scene will have a much more profound meaning, and I think a lot of things that didn't make sense will make a lot more sense after the trilogy is complete.  Disney isn't stupid.  They know what they're doing.  Like I said, people disliked Empire because it wasn't what they wanted, and they didn't have all the information.  I expect a similar change with TLJ.

[Calvert28]

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

If they were bought and paid to say it, does that not render their opinion null and void?  Thanks for making that one easy.  Please stop calling me bud and cut out the passive aggressive nonsense.  I'm getting too old for it.  I'm not trying to start an obnoxious fight or discussion.  It was an innocuous proclamation that started this and I'm not going to get sucked into a pissing match.  Quit the obnoxious bickering or I'll quit the discussion.

Making a snide remark about me being on the wrong side of history is going to warrant a response from me especially when you admit you can't prove your statement and are basing is off your opinion and not fact. The bud comment was not meant to be obnoxious. But even if it was since it was you that started it is this not more so pot meet kettle?

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

So you admit that time can and might tell a different story with TLJ.  Good.  Progress.  Because that's the only point I'm trying to make.  The whole debate is rendered moot at this point.  Let's not do this.  Let's be friends, remember? 

It can prove your point in time. But no need for the comments as if you are already proven right. But sure lets be friends if we are not going to resort to cheap shots.

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

So it didn't count with A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back either?  Need another example?  Prisoner of Azkaban made less than Sorcerer's Stone AND Chamber of Secrets worldwide.  It made less than any of the other Harry Potter movies, and yet it is widely considered the best of them.  That's two examples right there.  Harry Potter and Star Wars itself. 

Says who? I thought everything after Chamber of Secrets sucked because whats his face died and they did a drastic change in how they presented that world in the future films. Besides the new film did not have the type of anticipation that TLJ did, not by a long shot. By and large it did not have it's own Luke Skywalker. Which was it's biggest selling point going into theaters. Nothing garnered more attention about this film or maybe any film ever then having one of fictions greatest heroes coming back. They had so much hype to run on. I mean look at Infinity Wars. This thing may even take the No.2 spot on biggest box office films. They ran with not just the hype they had been building for 10 years, but they capitalized on it with an amazing movie that will have it going for awhile.

TLJ would never bomb in theaters. No Star Wars film will with a studio budget. They will all make back their money and then some. The only thing they films can do is not meet expectations. TLJ did not live up to it. If the excuse for the film not being one of the biggest block busters of all time is "well the audiance just didn't get it" as said by critics and others. Then the director and studio head failed then. It's not for the audience to get. Not for block busters, art house films sure. But block busters no matter how deep the story, or how weird, or how violent or funny is supposed to be easy to get sucked into because it's supposed to be entertaining. The only real place it was entertaining was the beginning, the rest left you scratching your head. Heck even the beginning did as well. Like if all it took was bomber to blow up that dreadnought. Why did they send all of them instead of just 1 or a few and have all the squadrons protect those few? Basic tactics would have made them harder to attack with more fighters guarding them.

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Doesn't matter.  Great movies have frequently taken time to reach the appreciation they need. 

Some great movies. And some truely great movies are great from the get go. If this was a movie without a fan base, I would agree with you. But this was the biggest fanbase in the world eagerly waiting to be impressed and jumped at the very second this movie was announced to get tickets and wait for it. Disney had them from the start. And this is the point. They had them from the very get go and turned most of the fanbase against them. Even casual viewers had problems with this film. Time may lessen people's hate for this film. But more then likely even if they don't hate it anymore they still wont like it.

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

What does this have to do with anything?  We're arguing whether or not TLJ will be considered a good movie.  What do bad movies have to do with the discussion?  Absolutely nothing. 

Because it's not a good movie now. It missed its chance to be a good or great movie. I'm saying time will more then likely not change that. The point of those movies being brought up is to show how much it failed. That it doesn't take much to impress audiences these days to be a massive block buster. And Rian Johnson couldn't even accomplish that.

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You've continued to neglect the fact that the same EXACT thing happened to Empire Strikes Back.  Do you think it's possible... It's very important that you eliminate every single ounce of bias here and look at this question with an open mind.  Do you think it's possible that a down point in a trilogy can impact positive word of mouth in a massive appeal type of movie?  Empire Strikes Back featured Han getting frozen in carbonite.  Luke lost a hand.  Vader beat him down.  Luke was crushed by the twist.  THE EMPIRE STRUCK BACK!  In The Last Jedi, the Resistance was all but crushed.  Luke was a shell of his former self.  Kylo Ren didn't return to the light side; Luke Skywalker DIED.  Does this or does this not POSSIBLY impact positive word of mouth?  Does a disappointing ending or does it not impact things?

I have neglected it because ESB did something very new for a blockbuster. It was also a sequel to a brand new trilogy. People had not developed the same type of love back then for Star Wars like the mania we have today for it. It was bashed for it but actually helped establish the entire series for the better and setting a new standard for a sequel is. Again we are talking about different eras here. I mean you talk open mind then have a open mind when reading the backlash. The people had no problem with Ren staying dark. I have had not heard one gripe about that. They had a problem with Snoke having no backstory what so ever when he was built up all of the last film and the hype leading up to this one as the new Palpatine basically and they just get rid of him with a moment of hubris. How is someone who did so much for this story up until now and we know nothing about him? Then we are told that it's not important because Kylo Ren is the main villain. As all the naysayers have said that's piss poor writing. Luke was a shell of his former self. Most people probably expected something like that to happen. What most probably didn't expect to happen is for him to get his azz kicked by someone who was using the force for like a week and somehow beat the greatest Jedi Master of all time in combat and with ease. That was a disservice to Luke. If you are a fan of him and Star Wars I cannot fathom how dont find that ridiculous. That and his piss poor exit that they gave him. Critics and casual fans say how great it was because oh he redeemed himself and he saved the resistance. He could have done that a million ways. Some people suggested had he went out with a bang that it would have been nothing but fan service except that's exactly how he was sent out. With fan service facing down the entire First Order except the way they did it. It flat out sucked. I expected Luke to die deep down. But I expected him to go out befitting of a character like him. Not dying on a rock and fading away, he could have done that on the planet with them after he decimates the First Order and Ren then smiles as he vanishes. On top of countless other stupid sh!t that's not even worth getting into anymore those were the two things that probably had more questions about that then any other leading up to the film besides Rey's parents. And Rian basically said eff you to everyone.

Sorry I completely rambled, but even months later it still boils my blood.

11 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Before you use Infinity Wars, note... 19 movies built up to Infinity Wars.  You had Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and literally a dozen other characters in it to draw audiences to it.  Without spoiling the ending of Infinity Wars, do you or do you not think that the conclusion, with what is bound to be a less-depressing ending point, will perform even better? 

It's already proven to perform better. It ended on a cliff hanger. And yet everyone still raves about it. That's how you know it's a great movie.

Plus this movie had every bit the edge going for it as Infinity Wars did. In fact it probably had the anticipation far more so for TLJ because the movie market has been flooded with Superhero movies. Not so much having movies with Luke Skywalker playing a major role. If anything Infinity War should have been watered down a bit due to how many films we've had about these characters.

 

[JonStark]

18 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Except this movie wasnt panned by critics bud. They were bought and paid to say this was the greatest thing since sound implementation. And the audience still hated it. 

Do we have proof of this? I feel like this gets thrown around way too much when odds are it's false and was started by some random TLJ hater.

[THE DUKE]

I liked TLJ.  It had it's flaws, but it's still a fun movie.  I found it rather refreshing they didn't deify Luke like many seemed to expect.  He is and always has been a flawed character.