Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I was not wrong about Graham. If I was wrong about Graham, the Bears would not have given him 9 million guaranteed. Graham was and is fine for what he is, and if Tonyan has more receptions, yards or touchdowns than Graham this year assuming health, I’ll wear a dress for a month. You are using the organization who traded up to grab a guy who can't play QB as your justification. The organization who mortgaged their future on a EDGE rusher and paid him 20 million a year. That move is sending their program into the abyss. The proof is how ****ty Graham was this year. Wear a dress for a month? Come on, do something out of your ordinary if you lose! Edited March 17, 2020 by Golfman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryTsraining3s Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I was not wrong about Graham. If I was wrong about Graham, the Bears would not have given him 9 million guaranteed. Graham was and is fine for what he is, and if Tonyan has more receptions, yards or touchdowns than Graham this year assuming health, I’ll wear a dress for a month. You'll have to elaborate more on the bold. What is he exactly, in your mind? A justified top paid tight end in the league? (sorry if you've explained this previously, I haven't read that far back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, MaryTsraining3s said: You'll have to elaborate more on the bold. What is he exactly, in your mind? A justified top paid tight end in the league? (sorry if you've explained this previously, I haven't read that far back). Oh, Graham was definitely way overpaid. I never argued that from the beginning. Let me put it this way... Take out the elites (Kittle, Kelce etc), accept the fact that Graham is not a plus blocker and there’s little separation between him and the rest of the NFL’s tight ends. Especially if you give Graham a break for being on the wrong side of 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Oh, Graham was definitely way overpaid. I never argued that from the beginning. Let me put it this way... Take out the elites (Kittle, Kelce etc), accept the fact that Graham is not a plus blocker and there’s little separation between him and the rest of the NFL’s tight ends. Especially if you give Graham a break for being on the wrong side of 30. Those are all the reasons we should have released him last year and saved an additional 5 million last year and 3.6 million this year. You don't compound a mistake by allowing to persist for an additional year. That 8.6 million could have been put to good use. He was the top paid TE in the league. He was not close to elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Golfman said: Those are all the reasons we should have released him last year and saved an additional 5 million last year and 3.6 million this year. You don't compound a mistake by allowing to persist for an additional year. That 8.6 million could have been put to good use. He was the top paid TE in the league. He was not close to elite. What option was there to replace him? What free agent was available? Where do you draft his replacement knowing it takes a full year for tight ends to develop if not more. The best TE in football was redshirted just first year. The second beat TE in football had a rookie year almost identical to Graham 2019. We were better than anyone thought we would be last year, so what point was there in saving that money? We got a year of Graham teaching Jace (and he DID teach Jace according to Jace), instilled professional work habits, came up with some HUGE plays. Ask yourself this... Do the Packers beat Seattle and get INCREDIBLY important playoff experience without Graham? No. We do not beat the Seahawks without Jimmy’s epic veteran clutch play at the end. Graham was worth every penny for what he did in that game alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Outpost31 said: What option was there to replace him? What free agent was available? Where do you draft his replacement knowing it takes a full year for tight ends to develop if not more. The best TE in football was redshirted just first year. The second beat TE in football had a rookie year almost identical to Graham 2019. We were better than anyone thought we would be last year, so what point was there in saving that money? We got a year of Graham teaching Jace (and he DID teach Jace according to Jace), instilled professional work habits, came up with some HUGE plays. Ask yourself this... Do the Packers beat Seattle and get INCREDIBLY important playoff experience without Graham? No. We do not beat the Seahawks without Jimmy’s epic veteran clutch play at the end. Graham was worth every penny for what he did in that game alone. We was almost exclusively an outlet or option 1 on simple routes. I can't think of one catch where he made because he's a difference maker. Seriously, you could have replaced him with Evan Bayliss and split his opportunities up among all of them and the production would not have dipped. He's just not that good any longer. It's worse because our QB doesn't throw to TEs very often. It was a no brainer to cut him last off season. I don't agree with us beating Seattle without him. We were the better team and those opportunities would have been given to somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Golfman said: We was almost exclusively an outlet or option 1 on simple routes. I can't think of one catch where he made because he's a difference maker. Seriously, you could have replaced him with Evan Bayliss and split his opportunities up among all of them and the production would not have dipped. He's just not that good any longer. It's worse because our QB doesn't throw to TEs very often. It was a no brainer to cut him last off season. I don't agree with us beating Seattle without him. We were the better team and those opportunities would have been given to somebody else. Don't be a moron. We got zero production from anybody else at the TE spot. If you have a QB who is willing to work with a big bodied tight end and doesn't get a hard on from 240 yard, 1 TD, 0 INT performances, Graham still has value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, Golfman said: What is our next move? Do we pull a head scratcher and trade someone away like some of these other teams? I don't think we do that but I feel like we need additional cap space and Lane Taylor is the logical one to go since we signed Wagner. (end of the Billy Turner to RT nonsense) Love to get a defensive lineman, but not sure who is worth the investment. We go get Njoku for a 5th. 1 year rental starting TE for basically the vet min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Don't be a moron. We got zero production from anybody else at the TE spot. If you have a QB who is willing to work with a big bodied tight end and doesn't get a hard on from 240 yard, 1 TD, 0 INT performances, Graham still has value. Go **** yourself! Jimmy Graham should have been cut last year. His production was non-existent. You should start blaming Rodgers for coronavirus too. It's your favorite past-time, other than being a no it all. His catch percentage his last year in Seattle was under 60%. I guess that was Russell Wilson's fault too. He was a player in deep decline when we got him and did nothing to change that narrative in his two years in GB. He had 7 fewer targets in 2018 with GB than in 2017 with Seattle. You're WRONG *******, now STFU! Edited March 17, 2020 by Golfman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Let's play the hindsight game regarding Graham. We had literally no one else at the TE position. Jace was a rookie. Tonyan second year player. Lewis back as a blocker. Giving the amount of money that could have been saved then...versus now, it was a no brainer to keep Jimmy. And he did produce some nice plays at the end of last year. GB did the right thing and kept him around. I have no doubt about that. And they did the right thing this year and released him. The extra "savings' doesn't help GB retain Bulaga...or Martinez. It doesn't help them land a Tier One free agent. It doesn't help re-sign Clark. I get the angst over Graham, I really do. It was a bad contract from the start and we took our out when it was appropriate. And the truly funny thing about it is that the Bears have opted into 2 more years of Graham and this chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said: We go get Njoku for a 5th. 1 year rental starting TE for basically the vet min. He's been unproductive in Cleveland. I know he's not exactly had great QB play, but is he an upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Golfman said: He's been unproductive in Cleveland. I know he's not exactly had great QB play, but is he an upgrade? Better than you're going to get in the draft and we're clearly not signing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Let's play the hindsight game regarding Graham. We had literally no one else at the TE position. Jace was a rookie. Tonyan second year player. Lewis back as a blocker. Giving the amount of money that could have been saved then...versus now, it was a no brainer to keep Jimmy. And he did produce some nice plays at the end of last year. GB did the right thing and kept him around. I have no doubt about that. And they did the right thing this year and released him. The extra "savings' doesn't help GB retain Bulaga...or Martinez. It doesn't help them land a Tier One free agent. It doesn't help re-sign Clark. I get the angst over Graham, I really do. It was a bad contract from the start and we took our out when it was appropriate. And the truly funny thing about it is that the Bears have opted into 2 more years of Graham and this chatter. Yeah, let's keep doing that with 2 or 3 guys a year and wonder why we will no longer have the cap money to get a top guy. If you don't think the extra 8 million we'd have on the books would allow us to get a top tier guy with our cap money, math is not your friend. It was clear Martinez and Bulaga were not in our plans for 2020 as we made NO effort to re-sign either of them. Having 8 million more this year doesn't help re-sign Clark? LOL! EIGHT MILLIONS is FOUR PERCENT OF YOUR TOTAL CAP! IT ABSOLUTELY HELPS! LOL! Was not hindsight with me. I was all over cutting him last off season! Edited March 17, 2020 by Golfman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Golfman said: Go **** yourself! Jimmy Graham should have been cut last year. His production was non-existent. You should start blaming Rodgers for coronavirus too. It's your favorite past-time, other than being a no it all. I love getting to make your favorite argument: We went 13-3 with [Jimmy Graham], he had to have played well!!!!!!! There isn't even an argument to be made that a guy like Tonyan would have been more productive on more snaps because Tonyan didn't even carry the same efficiency on a much lower number of snaps. Graham has 447 yards in 622 snaps. The other 3 TEs had 256 yards in 740 snaps. Lewis had 156 yards in 487 snaps. Tonyan had 100 yards in 193 snaps. Sternberger had 0 yards in 60 snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Golfman said: He's been unproductive in Cleveland. I know he's not exactly had great QB play, but is he an upgrade? He's been hurt and flashed a lot of potential when we wasn't. Definitely seems like the buy low kind of guy that Gute goes for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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