Beast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Part of me is with you. The logical part. I saw where GB had a little money for next year, but not much. I also saw the Saints as 81M over the cap. I also saw the Chargers with like $121M under the cap, with 6 players under contract or something like that. It's an odd looking year for sure. But, there is a part of me that looks at what KC did this off-season, with no cap space. Makes me wonder just how "real" the cap is. There are a lot of ways to free up cash and keep your players. Pretty much every guy on the roster who is making serious money can be re-structured. Z is a prime example, as is Adams. You do have the obvious cuts, like Turner and Lowry. Then you have a tier of players that are "grey". Like Preston. If he's gonna drop so much, we can replace that. If he is going to rush more? Not as easy to replace, even with Gary starting to come on. And cap wise, I don't think we really know what happens in 2022. If the cap goes down in 2021, then skyrockets up in 2022, well, it becomes easier to structure contracts. I'm unsure if there is an accurate projection out there for the 2022 cap. But I'm sure Russ has a handle on that. If GB wants to retain all the players, they could. It's also likely that they like a lot of young players and have a succession plan in place for a few guys. I have just a little advice for you concerning the future cap. Don't fret about it. Enjoy your team while it is here. That whole cap thing will figure itself out. All I'm saying is that you can't resign everyone to big deals... you're going to have to let some go... and for the people we might lose, it's not selectively going to be only the ones you didn't want in the first place... You can sign four guys you like, but sooner or later, you also gonna lose a guy you like. And that backloading contracts help today, but they hurt the future... and a secret with the cap, don't follow the cap... follow the actual paid money... because the cap follows the actual paid money, so if you follow the actual paid money, you're actually ahead of the cap. Old but simply rule, follow the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Hard to let go of Bakhtiari, and the way Linsley is playing him too. I bet they wished Hanson had stepped up and earned a spot on the 53. This time next year if we don’t have King on the roster then we will be kicking ourselves. Ball is supposed to be one of the best in the business. If he can’t figure this out then it’s time to move on, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, deathstar said: Hard to let go of Bakhtiari, and the way Linsley is playing him too. I bet they wished Hanson had stepped up and earned a spot on the 53. This time next year if we don’t have King on the roster then we will be kicking ourselves. Ball is supposed to be one of the best in the business. If he can’t figure this out then it’s time to move on, in my opinion. Why force Hanson on the active 53? This is the perfect year to hide guys on practice squad. With no preseason everyone is going based on draft evaluations. Plus it’s not JUST Hanson. It’s Patrick and Hanson that would battle to take that spot. So I think Linsley is a clear not resigning (unless he gives a nice discount). Also Ball has had years of doing wonders on contracts... why would they move on from him if he can’t resign fans personal favorites this coming offseason? Everyone just needs to get ready to lose talent. Ravens lost Z Smith... they don’t seem worse for it. If packers stick to their normal philosophy Bak and King likely get the money. Everyone else walks. If the thinking has change then maybe it’s a different combination of the top 5 everyone talks about (Bak, Jones, King, Linsley, Williams). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, deathstar said: Great route by Jamaal here: tongue in cheek....Rodgers just hates throwing to RB's... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Beast said: All I'm saying is that you can't resign everyone to big deals... you're going to have to let some go... and for the people we might lose, it's not selectively going to be only the ones you didn't want in the first place... You can sign four guys you like, but sooner or later, you also gonna lose a guy you like. And that backloading contracts help today, but they hurt the future... and a secret with the cap, don't follow the cap... follow the actual paid money... because the cap follows the actual paid money, so if you follow the actual paid money, you're actually ahead of the cap. Old but simply rule, follow the money. There's a lot you and I and everyone else does not know about the cap. I believe that there are always ways to get around, if you choose to do it and are paid handsomely to be a master of it. (And that ain't us.) I get the paid money, I get looking ahead to see what should be done given our past. Very much get it. I do it often. And it means nothing in the end. Let's watch the Saints next off-season, eat some popcorn and see just how "real" the cap is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, Green19 said: Why force Hanson on the active 53? This is the perfect year to hide guys on practice squad. With no preseason everyone is going based on draft evaluations. Plus it’s not JUST Hanson. It’s Patrick and Hanson that would battle to take that spot. So I think Linsley is a clear not resigning (unless he gives a nice discount). Also Ball has had years of doing wonders on contracts... why would they move on from him if he can’t resign fans personal favorites this coming offseason? Everyone just needs to get ready to lose talent. Ravens lost Z Smith... they don’t seem worse for it. If packers stick to their normal philosophy Bak and King likely get the money. Everyone else walks. If the thinking has change then maybe it’s a different combination of the top 5 everyone talks about (Bak, Jones, King, Linsley, Williams). IMO Ball really screwed the pooch on the structure of Rodgers’ contract making it so hard to move on should his play decline. The guy has done great work for us in the past. But as I said this is a big offseason coming up. It’s not a matter of keeping personal favorites, it’s keeping the nucleus of young talent that could win a Super Bowl. I’m not saying fire him for not keeping Aaron Jones. I’m saying the cap game is moving in a new direction with what the Chiefs, Rams, and Saints are doing. We need to be prepared to move in that direction to continue to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, vegas492 said: There's a lot you and I and everyone else does not know about the cap. I believe that there are always ways to get around, if you choose to do it and are paid handsomely to be a master of it. (And that ain't us.) I get the paid money, I get looking ahead to see what should be done given our past. Very much get it. I do it often. And it means nothing in the end. Let's watch the Saints next off-season, eat some popcorn and see just how "real" the cap is. The cap is real, but people and media's false understanding of it is what not real... The cap is single year cap, in which you account for money, but the money is adjustable and get be manipulated, specific via signing bonus which get spead over the life of the contract or 5 years, whichever is shorter. Most people problems with the cap (which I blame the media, because this is their doing and lack of understanding and spreading to the people way of thinking) is they attempt to use it as a multi-year tool, which is just plain stupid, because the cap definition is quite literally a single year. Whenever you want to do multiple years, you really need to look based on dollars, not cap, because the cap is manipulated BS cash... and to truely understand you want the actual not the manipulated, and I'm pretty sure this is how the professionals do it, as if you follow the actual cash, the system isn't that complex. Those there are still a lot of moving parts where almost none would track it just for fun or a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 41 minutes ago, deathstar said: IMO Ball really screwed the pooch on the structure of Rodgers’ contract making it so hard to move on should his play decline. Well, no, Ball did a good job... Even after adding more money to the backend of his contract with restructures, the Packers can move on from Rodgers next year and save around $22M in expenditures and just south of $5M in cap space. Easy peazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Happy days are here again .. Kenny Clark back at practice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 56 minutes ago, Donzo said: Well, no, Ball did a good job... Even after adding more money to the backend of his contract with restructures, the Packers can move on from Rodgers next year and save around $22M in expenditures and just south of $5M in cap space. Easy peazy. .. We save cap space by moving on from Rodgers, yes, but a significant amount of our cap is still made up of dead money devoted to him. Look at how Favre’s contracts were structured near the end for a better illustration of what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said: Happy days are here again .. Kenny Clark back at practice. < 3 u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Beast said: The cap is real, but people and media's false understanding of it is what not real... The cap is single year cap, in which you account for money, but the money is adjustable and get be manipulated, specific via signing bonus which get spead over the life of the contract or 5 years, whichever is shorter. Most people problems with the cap (which I blame the media, because this is their doing and lack of understanding and spreading to the people way of thinking) is they attempt to use it as a multi-year tool, which is just plain stupid, because the cap definition is quite literally a single year. Whenever you want to do multiple years, you really need to look based on dollars, not cap, because the cap is manipulated BS cash... and to truely understand you want the actual not the manipulated, and I'm pretty sure this is how the professionals do it, as if you follow the actual cash, the system isn't that complex. Those there are still a lot of moving parts where almost none would track it just for fun or a project. Yah, you missed the point. I'll propose this. Ball has forgotten more about the "salary cap" in regards to how it works and it can be worked around, than you and I combined will ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, deathstar said: IMO Ball really screwed the pooch on the structure of Rodgers’ contract making it so hard to move on should his play decline. The guy has done great work for us in the past. But as I said this is a big offseason coming up. It’s not a matter of keeping personal favorites, it’s keeping the nucleus of young talent that could win a Super Bowl. I’m not saying fire him for not keeping Aaron Jones. I’m saying the cap game is moving in a new direction with what the Chiefs, Rams, and Saints are doing. We need to be prepared to move in that direction to continue to compete. Rodgers’ contract is like the only contract he can’t get cute with. Plus given how he is playing... his play hasnt decline. And maybe Gute and Ball did that contract knowing/thinking that. I think we need to start listening to these guys more and not think they are trying to sell us false goods. They do want Rodgers to see most of this contract (3 out of the 4 years). That they can carry both Rodgers and Love, etc. What new game is going on with the cap? Sign a bunch of guys and have at ton of dead money after we release them? Because those 3 teams have 4 of the top 20 biggest dead money hits this year (rams have 2 of those 4). How many Super Bowls have those teams won in the last 5-10 years with their cap wizard skills? 1? And that one was Mahomes. Lets see how Chiefs do after paying everyone. Rams already missed their window but I don’t blame them... they moved to a new market and needed to create energy around that team before getting the new stadium. And the Saints... well are the Saints. They think one piece here or there will change the out come but Brees still screws them come January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Yah, you missed the point. I'll propose this. Ball has forgotten more about the "salary cap" in regards to how it works and it can be worked around, than you and I combined will ever know. I didn't miss the point, I just ignored the point because I realize you're assuming I don't know about accounting... The basics of NFL cap system really is a fairly simply accounting system if you have the cap limit amont... the accounting for the cap is problem among the easer parts of Ball's job, projection the among of future cap space there will be (as you base everything off of that, how to split the cap up and negotiating with agents, would be the harder parts. But fans rarely discuss those parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 How long can the Packers have open spots on the 53 man roster before people freak out? Cus I'll probably be upset if they haven't filled at least one by gameday... as Lane Taylor has been known out since week 1... and they're not going to add a guy? Why? I think they might be holding one to bring ILB Martin back, and that being about elevate PS to the gameday roster takes out the need to keep rotating guys on and off the roster... but if you got an two open spots, someone could at least be practicing and learning the system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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