Packerraymond Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Second contracts are pretty manageable. It's the third one that gets you. Aaron's second contract isn't what kept us from winning a Super Bowl, it was Thompson's refusal to use the cap space Aaron's second contract allowed that killed us. Aaron didn't start. Wentz or Goff are going to be top 5 paid QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, TheBitzMan said: At the point he signed he became the highest paid player in NFL history. They are manageable a few years down the line because the market passes them by. Similar to what is going to happen with this Rodgers contract... (See Lodestar mentioning Jimmy G was the highest paid player before Ryan signed his) Right, and like I've said through all of this, I don't have any problem whatsoever with Rodgers becoming the highest paid player. I expect it and I'm okay with it. What I have a problem with is his massive ego trying to get a guaranteed highest paid QB for the rest of his career by tying his contract to a cap percentage. That's horse****. Get the highest paid contract ever, then let it even out and deal with it. The whiny diva, I swear. From the beginning of this conversation, my single solitary issue is Rodgers signing a deal that is tied to a guaranteed salary cap percentage. That's ridiculous, and it will cripple this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Aaron didn't start. Wentz or Goff are going to be top 5 paid QBs. Aaron's third contract happened after the Super Bowl win, didn't it? I'm referring to his fair third deal I guess technically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Right, and like I've said through all of this, I don't have any problem whatsoever with Rodgers becoming the highest paid player. I expect it and I'm okay with it. What I have a problem with is his massive ego trying to get a guaranteed highest paid QB for the rest of his career by tying his contract to a cap percentage. That's horse****. Get the highest paid contract ever, then let it even out and deal with it. The whiny diva, I swear. From the beginning of this conversation, my single solitary issue is Rodgers signing a deal that is tied to a guaranteed salary cap percentage. That's ridiculous, and it will cripple this team. While I have a hard time seeing the cap % thing actually happen, I will always be in favor of giving the player's more power in these negotiations. They are the product and put their lives (literally) on the line week in and week out. If he were to secure that type of contract others will follow and a new market will be created. These players deserve a bigger piece of the pie than what they are getting now. In that scenario Rodgers would have changed the landscape completely. Didn't you also say if Gute signs another player after June 1st cuts we were winning the Super Bowl? No matter what Rodgers contract is if we win another Super Bowl with him does it really matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, TheBitzMan said: While I have a hard time seeing the cap % thing actually happen, I will always be in favor of giving the player's more power in these negotiations. They are the product and put their lives (literally) on the line week in and week out. If he were to secure that type of contract others will follow and a new market will be created. These players deserve a bigger piece of the pie than what they are getting now. In that scenario Rodgers would have changed the landscape completely. Didn't you also say if Gute signs another player after June 1st cuts we were winning the Super Bowl? No matter what Rodgers contract is if we win another Super Bowl with him does it really matter? I want to win Super Bowls bottom line. I don't care if the Super Bowl is won with Tim Tebow or Aaron Rodgers. I believe the best way to win the most Super Bowls over the next ten years is to trade Rodgers or sign him to a team friendly deal. I don't see him signing a team friendly deal (because of his ego). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Aaron's third contract happened after the Super Bowl win, didn't it? I'm referring to his fair third deal I guess technically. His 3rd deal is the deal we're on, and while it was a fair deal, it was before this QB boom we've seen. In today's NFL I think that deal is probably in the realm of what we're discussing him signing for today. Either QB prices are going to even out of fall in the future or past QB deals are going to be irrelevant to compare to once they're 3 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 5 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I want to win Super Bowls bottom line. I don't care if the Super Bowl is won with Tim Tebow or Aaron Rodgers. I believe the best way to win the most Super Bowls over the next ten years is to trade Rodgers or sign him to a team friendly deal. I don't see him signing a team friendly deal (because of his ego). Thanks for taking up the mantle HZ. Agree with most of your arguments. Tying Aaron's contract to a percentage of the cap is suicide. I'll defend Aaron here. I think it is his agent that is pulling all this crap. Bottom line is Aaron has no leverage. A team friendly deal is the most likely outcome. He'll become the highest paid player but it will be structured in such a way that is palatable. He's really not a diva. I think his agent that is the problem. Agree Aaron has maybe 4 years left that's about it. He has been injury prone and it should be a major concern. I am sure the Packers are concerned. I'll also state that at this moment in time he is not the best QB in football. He has to prove himself again IMO. Blitz and just about everybody else assumes he's 100%. I sure don't and hope the Packers test him thoroughly before a new deal is done. Aaron is human and subject to aging. He is not in his prime anymore. He's past it. His performance will decline over the next few years. He'll still be a great QB (I hope) but won't be the best in the league. He's not Tom Brady. Different type of player. Bottom line Aaron is coming off of a major injury and does not deserve a massive contract at this point in time. He might come out this season and not be the same. We don't know. Packers should be in no hurry to re-sign him regardless of how bad the media want us to. Packers should see how he performs through the first half of the season before making that kind of commitment. Nothing personal just business. To sign him to a deal before training camp is a really bad idea. I hope they don't do it. HZ your point about trading him is a good one. Ruthless but probably best for the franchise. Let him play out his existing contract. Tag him for a year. Then trade him while we still have control. We let him go at 38 and get multiple high picks to rebuild with. Not very nice and doubt it's anything the Packers would actually do. Aaron has been loyal to the Packers and should be taken care of. He wants to finish his career with the Pack. In order for that scenario to occur he'll have to recognize his declining skills and worth. Be willing to accept a lesser deal later in his career. The opt out BS his agent is floating isn't going to fly precisely for that reason. Really a ridiculous notion. Why even bother at that point. If they insist on it then let him finish out his existing contract and trade him. We will find out a lot about Gute with how he handles this situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Scoremore said: The opt out BS his agent is floating isn't going to fly precisely for that reason. Really a ridiculous notion. Why even bother at that point. If they insist on it then let him finish out his existing contract and trade him. I'm unsure the context for your "it's ridiculous" comment - perhaps because its later in the players career (?) - but many baseball players have had opt out clauses in their contracts for years. Dont know about basketball players - but know for certain its happened in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyponGrey Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 12 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I want to win Super Bowls bottom line. I don't care if the Super Bowl is won with Tim Tebow or Aaron Rodgers. I believe the best way to win the most Super Bowls over the next ten years is to trade Rodgers or sign him to a team friendly deal. I don't see him signing a team friendly deal (because of his ego). What are we talking about baseball players? 22 minutes ago, Leader said: I'm unsure the context for your "it's ridiculous" comment - perhaps because its later in the players career (?) - but many baseball players have had opt out clauses in their contracts for years. Dont know about basketball players - but know for certain its happened in baseball. Ah. I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Packerraymond said: That's just a total Madden franchise mode way to look at it. It'd be like if you're in charge of logistics for a company and you use this high priced freight company that always gets your stuff there on time. You decide to switch to a company you think is equally as good but much more reasonably priced. Turns out they aren't and your freight is constantly late with damaged product. What's the end result? Your *** is getting fired. Any GM trades a franchise QB to save money and the next guy he draft busts, he's gone, and he may never get another shot. Sorry but that's fantasy land stuff. Roseman would be fired if he traded Wentz and Foles regressed back to the mean. Spot on analogy. QB isn't the position you should be cutting corners on. Edited June 5, 2018 by SSG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Scoremore said: Agree Aaron has maybe 4 years left that's about it. He has been injury prone and it should be a major concern. I am sure the Packers are concerned. I'll also state that at this moment in time he is not the best QB in football. He has to prove himself again IMO. Blitz and just about everybody else assumes he's 100%. I sure don't and hope the Packers test him thoroughly before a new deal is done. This is not hard. My assumption is IF they give him the extension he is 100%. You nor I is the doctor who is viewing his medical reports and helping him rehab. If you don't trust the Packers' medical staff or front office in that regard that is a completely different issue. I get that you want to wait, that's fine and has some merit but if/when they sign him the assumption should be he is 100%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I've always thought it was a little hot takey to say that QB contracts kill teams. QBs are really just easier targets since they get paid the most. There is the Vegas argument- High end position players are maybe worth a point to a betting line. AR is worth around 10. You can also just examine the QBs and what they got paid- https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/quarterback-salaries-cap-hits-highest-paid-players Looking at the teams with top 15 paid QBs last year, the only teams that were abysmal were Indy (Luck missed the whole year), AZ (Palmer missed half the year), NYG (injuries, Eli at the end of the line). 12 of the 15 teams won at least 7 games. Green Bay won 7 games and was in contention without their QB for half the year. MN still won games with Bradford out. Cousins was the only reason Washington won games....All of the teams with bottom 5 paid QBs missed the playoffs. Wentz/Goff is having gold for 2 years (players getting paid 6M when worth 25). With that said in 2 years they are going to have to pay FMV. Then there is the struggle it took for them to get here. Both those teams were bad for several years while in search for "the guy" (Philly missed the playoffs 5 of 6 years before last year, the rams missed the playoffs 12 years in a row).If it was so easy to find a cheap QB that could be capable of winning high stakes playoff games, you wouldn't see teams paying QBs. When it all comes down to it, you want your team to create value with rookie contracts. I'd rather see us attempt to do that with position players than QB. At least if we strike out on the position players, you'll be competitive (assuming your QB stays healthy). If you want to argue though that AR shouldn't get paid for health reasons, and for being at the end of the line, that is valid though. I definitely have reservations about guaranteeing a 34 year old more than like 3 years. If it was up to me, we'd have him play the next 2 years out, franchise him in 2020, and then see where the CBA ends out. Then either trade or let him go at 38. I know he probably would get pissy and hold out though with that (wouldn't blame him personally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffdaswede Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 ^ Is that recent? Bart looks good for a guy in his eighties. And I thought his health was failing...like there was talk that his last trip to Green Bay was going to be his LAST trip to Green Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 That pic is from 2006 when MM was first hired as HC. I was kinda surprised by it too - Bart looks completely lucid and MM looks reasonably svelte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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