Dogbite Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 44 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I have no other evidence other than my gut, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they went HARD after Cousins. I agree that they're also in the perfect situation for a QBOTF with a bridge QB in Manning. Sounds like the start of a relationship here in Pennsylvania. Boys here are always going hard for their cousins around these parts. They also say stupid things like yin's and don't brush their teeth, and they support a QB who likes 14 year old girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoGrahamsGhost Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: There is though, the 2000 Redskins did, which set up their dynasty in the 00’s. Which is why I said almost unprecedented. The Redskins did get two all-pro players at picks number 2 and 3 in that draft. It would be awesome if we could emulate that. We have had 3 All-Pro players since we have returned. (Josh Cribbs 1x, Josh Gordon 1x, Joe Thomas 6x) 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Ah, so wait until we’re a good team to do business like one. Sounds reasonable... I thought so too. Thank you! 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Staying at 1+4 would literally be the definition of settling for what we have. It would be settling for the picks that we have, not settling for a player that we do not have ranked as highly as others. There is no doubt in my mind at 1 and 4 they could probably pick the top 2 players on their draft board. It might not be the same as ours or anyone else's. Instead of trading down to the teens or 20s and settling for what may be the #10 prospect on their board and having a pick for next year. 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Even if we traded pick 4 for picks in 2019 and beyond, which would never happen, would the number one overall pick and 5 total top 65 picks not STILL be a huge injection of talent? Especially with 9 figures of cap space? Is adding talent REALLY that dependent on that one pick? More picks could be more talent. But last year we had 3 1st rounders, 2 of which were some of the lowest ranked at their position as starters this year. I'm not judging them on that one year and I think Peppers lack of production was based on scheme. I think Njoku has all the talent in the world, he just needs to catch the damn ball (I know having someone deliver a better ball could be the cure). Would have you rather had Garrett and Fournette (1 & 4) or Garrett, Peppers, and Njoku (1, 25, & 29)? 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: But there WILL always be next year though. Good teams/franchises/investors/etc plan for the immediate future as well as tomorrow. You act like we didn’t select the number one overall player and THREE (!!) first rounders last year. I am not acting like we didn't take 3 first rounders. I'm just saying they need to put a team on the field that can compete now, we have been through too many 3 and 5 year plans. Always foregoing this year to plan for the future isn't ideal, especially when the future is uncertain. 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Sounds like what every prudent asset manager would advise..... Prudent? Maybe not. But it would depend on the investment opportunities are and I think right now, this year, they are as good as they have ever been. There are great players in positions of need ready to build this team into a perennial playoff team. 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: No better year? I’d argue the prospects outside of Barkley and the top 2/3 qb’s aren’t all that special and not significantly better than the guy behind them, and I personally don’t care for a RB in the top 5. I'm not arguing that. I like the QBs and I am sure as the process goes on different prospects will buoy above others. I would be 100% surprised if everyone's current top 5 will be the same come April. That being said, I'm not against poaching a the Broncos or Jets to drop back a pick or two and still get the player that we originally wanted. We know they want a QB so it would not be too risky. Trading back into the teens or twenties is what I definitely do not want them to do. Unless they are clairvoyant and know there are future All-Pros waiting there for us to select them, then I would be ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 17 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said: I think Ronald Jones, with a good 2nd back, could be that guy. I don't like him much, but Nick Chubb is definitely a "workhorse" back (IE tough and big but not very explosive or agile). Kerryon Johnson and Royce Freeman are also bigger-ish backs. I was just about to add Chubb to that list. But I would be happy with Penny in the mid to late 2nd. This is a deep draft for RBs and if Dorsey can do for us what he did for KC with hunt then we don't need to use the 4th on Barkley. That is all Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said: I was just about to add Chubb to that list. But I would be happy with Penny in the mid to late 2nd. This is a deep draft for RBs and if Dorsey can do for us what he did for KC with hunt then we don't need to use the 4th on Barkley. That is all Mastercheddaar The talent gap between Barkley and other backs are huge. Hunt had a very good year but you could tell when teams were keying him and not keying him. Hunt had a hot start but when they tried to truly feature him and defenses started to key on him and really took him out of the games. I believe you could build an offense around Barkley right now. Like the rams cowboys and jags did with there top tier rookies RBs. Cowboys had a very serviceable back in Morris but he truly couldn’t carry that offense like Zeke did. We all saw what LF did to Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Mind Character said: Joe Thomas Retirerment Mock -------------------------- Select the Best Players Mock 1st Round: 1(1) Browns Select: Sam Darnold QB USC 1(2) New York Giants select Baker Mayfield QB Oklahoma 1(3) Indianapolis Colts select Saquon Barkley RB Penn State ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ***Trade**** 1(4) to Buffalo for both their 1st(21) + 1st(22) in 2018, as well as their 2018 2nd round pick; We also get their 1st and 3rd in 2019. Buffalo can't resist trading up get Josh Rosen. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1(21-via Buffalo) Browns Select: Carlton Davis CB Auburn 1(23-via Buffalo) Browns Select: Mike McGlinchey OT Notre Dame ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2nd Round: 2. Browns Select: Tremaine Edmunds LB Va Tech: Head Scratcher?? Too talented to pass up. BPA by a long shot. Has top LB in the league upside. Will challenge Schobert and Collins as starter...and could be a star pro bowl impact player long term in lieu of Schobert's likely flash in a pan pro bowl bid. Will get on the field immediately as an additional pass rusher from the MLB position on 3rd down. 2.(via Texans) Browns Select: Ronnie Harrison S Alabama 2. (via Buffalo) Browns Select: Harold Landry DE Boston College 2. (via Eagles) Browns Select: Hayden Hurst TE South Carolina ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3rd Round 3. (via Eagles) Browns Select: Rashaad Penny RB SDSU ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4th Round: 4. Browns Select: Hunter Renfrow WR Clemson 4. Browns Select: Sam Beal CB Western Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5th Round: 5. Browns Select: Bo Scarborough RB Alabama 5. Browns Select: Jamal Peters CB Miss. St. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6th Round: 6. Browns Select: Marcus Allen SS Penn State ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7th Round: 7. Browns Select: BPA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If Joe Thomas does retire then free agency or trade should become priority #1 to find his replacement. McGlinchy would probably not even be in my Top 5 to replace Joe Thomas. I would take Brian O'Neil, Kolton Miller and Orlando Brown over him in the draft. Cordy Glenn could be had on the cheap as a stop guy for a guy like Desmond Harrison or Alex Cappa later in the draft. Edmunds is not going to fall that far and we have next to zero need at linebacker. We have 4 guys who can play at an above average level where most teams have 2. Marcus Allen is way too good to fall to the 6th round. I don't even think he has a place here in Cleveland as he is another box safety where Peppers should be playing and Kindred just made a huge leap this year in only his 2nd season. I like Harold Landry in that part of the draft. He would be an excellent 3rd down pass rusher. Let him focus on that for the first year or even two while you develop the rest of his game and hope he takes the leap so you have options when Ogbah's contract comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioG Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Trade Panthers 4th Round pick (KC 5th if needed) for OT Cordy Glenn. Glenn has been subject of trade rumors last year plus has had a few injuries the past 2 years. I think he gets a chance to compete for RT and on the off chance Joe Thomas retires he can step in at LT. Given our cap space we can afford to let him heal up fully. Trade our 3rd & 5th round picks for CB Darqueze Dennard I know I may lose you guys here but here is how I see it. Dennard was a 1st round pick who is stuck playing slot since they have William Jackson and Dre Kirkpatrick on the outsides. He played better on the outside and with Pacman somehow never getting cut and the Bengals just extending Kirkpatrick they have way too much money ($30 mil) tied up in CBs. FA AJ McCarron - QB Terelle Pryor - WR Paul Richardson - WR Carlos Hyde - RB Draft 1) Sam Darnold - QB 1) Bradley Chubb - DE Trade 33 + 37 + 4th rounder for mid first 1) Denzeil Ward/Carlton Davis/Joshua Jackson 2) Terrell Edmunds - FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, TheeRealDeal said: If Joe Thomas does retire then free agency or trade should become priority #1 to find his replacement. McGlinchy would probably not even be in my Top 5 to replace Joe Thomas. I would take Brian O'Neil, Kolton Miller and Orlando Brown over him in the draft. Cordy Glenn could be had on the cheap as a stop guy for a guy like Desmond Harrison or Alex Cappa later in the draft. Edmunds is not going to fall that far and we have next to zero need at linebacker. We have 4 guys who can play at an above average level where most teams have 2. Marcus Allen is way too good to fall to the 6th round. I don't even think he has a place here in Cleveland as he is another box safety where Peppers should be playing and Kindred just made a huge leap this year in only his 2nd season. I like Harold Landry in that part of the draft. He would be an excellent 3rd down pass rusher. Let him focus on that for the first year or even two while you develop the rest of his game and hope he takes the leap so you have options when Ogbah's contract comes up. I watched Kolton Miller and Orlando Brown intently. Miller has terrible contact balance and his footwork is a mess. He also has a high anchor and no real punch. Orlando brown lacks the feet and was protected by OU's "get the ball out quick" spread scheme. There were tons of instances where he got beat terribly and in a normal offense it would have been to devastating effect on the QB. Instead, the ball is thrown and he avoids the sack numbers. His pad level and pass set is terrible. I've only seen 1 game of O'Neil so I'll trust your eval on him. Cordy Glenn is def an option, but FA is devoid of LTs. Could be right on Marcus Allen not lasting that long, but he will run a bad 40 time and has not a lot of ball production. If a player like Tedric Thompson can go in the 4th last year, Marcus Ball can go in the 4th-6th range. Probably right on Edmunds but he may fall to the top of the 2nd or bottom of the first. The first pick in the second is always for a player that has 1st round ability that falls in the draft...he was the one I had doing so in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: Which is why I said almost unprecedented. The Redskins did get two all-pro players at picks number 2 and 3 in that draft. It would be awesome if we could emulate that. We have had 3 All-Pro players since we have returned. (Josh Cribbs 1x, Josh Gordon 1x, Joe Thomas 6x) And what did it get them? Having a couple elite talents isn’t what wins titles. 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: It would be settling for the picks that we have, not settling for a player that we do not have ranked as highly as others. There is no doubt in my mind at 1 and 4 they could probably pick the top 2 players on their draft board. It might not be the same as ours or anyone else's. Instead of trading down to the teens or 20s and settling for what may be the #10 prospect on their board and having a pick for next year. Back to the concept of overconfidence. Just because you rate them highly doesn’t mean they are good. I’d rather have two chances to find a good player than one. 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: More picks could be more talent. But last year we had 3 1st rounders, 2 of which were some of the lowest ranked at their position as starters this year. I'm not judging them on that one year and I think Peppers lack of production was based on scheme. I think Njoku has all the talent in the world, he just needs to catch the damn ball (I know having someone deliver a better ball could be the cure). Would have you rather had Garrett and Fournette (1 & 4) or Garrett, Peppers, and Njoku (1, 25, & 29)? I’d rather have Peppers and Njoku than Fournette, then and now. 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: I am not acting like we didn't take 3 first rounders. I'm just saying they need to put a team on the field that can compete now, we have been through too many 3 and 5 year plans. Always foregoing this year to plan for the future isn't ideal, especially when the future is uncertain. “The future is uncertain, spend all draft capital now”. Lol that’s some logic. And how the hell is making the first overall selection, 6 in the top 65 and using some portion of 9 figures “foregoing this year”??? 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: Prudent? Maybe not. But it would depend on the investment opportunities are and I think right now, this year, they are as good as they have ever been. There are great players in positions of need ready to build this team into a perennial playoff team. What positions of need? Most folks are mocking a SS or a DE, both relatively solid positions for us, as well as a RB, which is fairly pointless considering our OC doesn’t run the football (and other reasons I’ve discussed plenty) 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: I'm not arguing that. I like the QBs and I am sure as the process goes on different prospects will buoy above others. I would be 100% surprised if everyone's current top 5 will be the same come April. That being said, I'm not against poaching a the Broncos or Jets to drop back a pick or two and still get the player that we originally wanted. This is my ideal situation unless someone in the 20’s wants to offer up top 64 picks in BOTH 2019/2020. 4 hours ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said: We know they want a QB so it would not be too risky. Trading back into the teens or twenties is what I definitely do not want them to do. Unless they are clairvoyant and know there are future All-Pros waiting there for us to select them, then I would be ok with it. I’m not clairvoyant and I can assure you there will be as there are every year. Isn’t Dorsey supposed to be the “real football guy” who spots “real football players” with his “eye for talent”? So use those eyes and do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosko1616 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Free Agency acquire Alex Smith QB. I’m going to say we have to give up a 3rd and 5th sign Trumaine Johnson CB sign Demarcus Lawernce DE sign Jeremy Hill RB sign Terrelle Pryor WR Draft 1. Sam Darnold QB Trade 4 to Bills for 21,22, 2nd and T Cordy Glenn 21. Darius Guice RB 22. Josh Jackson CB 33. Christian Kirk WR 35. Mark Andrews TE 55. Jerome Baker LB 60. Jessie Bates III FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, bosko1616 said: Free Agency acquire Alex Smith QB. I’m going to say we have to give up a 3rd and 5th sign Trumaine Johnson CB sign Demarcus Lawernce DE sign Jeremy Hill RB sign Terrelle Pryor WR Draft 1. Sam Darnold QB Trade 4 to Bills for 21,22, 2nd and T Cordy Glenn 21. Darius Guice RB 22. Josh Jackson CB 33. Christian Kirk WR 35. Mark Andrews TE 55. Jerome Baker LB 60. Jessie Bates III FS Who would the Bills give up all of that for? Mayfield/Jackson/Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Who would the Bills give up all of that for? Mayfield/Jackson/Allen? When we take Allen number 1 overall Darnold and Rosen will fall in their laps....silly didn't you see Kiper's mock ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieRules Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 2:56 AM, TheeRealDeal said: It is never about whether or not your trade down, trade up or stay put. It always boils down to how well you can evaluate talent and making the right selection. We have clearly been unable to properly identify talent the last 18 years in Cleveland. Justin Smith, LaDainin Tomlinson, Richard Seymour, Marcus Stroud, Steve Hutchinson, Casey Hampton, Nate Clements, Drew Brees all taken after we took Gerard Warren at #3 -------------------------------------------------------- Ed Reed taken 8 picks after William Green ---------------------------------------------------- Willis McGahee, Nnamdi Asomugha, Charles Tillman, Anquon Boldin, Osi Umenyiora all taken after we took Jeff Faine at #21 -------------------------------------------------------- Ben Roethlisberger and Vince Wilfork taken after we TRADED UP and took Kellen Winslow at #6 ---------------------------------------------------------- DeMarcus Ware, Aaron Rodgers, Logan Mankins taken well after we took Braylon Edwards #3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Cromartie, Tamba Hali, Johnathan Joseph, Nick Mangold all taken after we took Kamerion Wimbley #13 ------------------------------------------------------------ Joe Staley, Paul Posluszny, Eric Weddle, LaMarr Woodley all taken after we took Brady Quinn #22 ------------------------------------------------------------ Clay Matthews taken after we took Alex Mack at #21 LeSean McCoy taken after we took Mohamed Massaquoi and David Veikune #50 and #52 picks aquired via trade down ------------------------------------------------------------ Earl Thomas, Jason Pierre Paul, Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant all taken after we took Joe Haden #7 ------------------------------------------------------------ Cameron Jordan, Mark Ingram, Muhammad Wilkerson, Andy Dalton all taken after we traded down and TRADED UP with pick #70(Justin Houston) and took Phil Taylor #21 ----------------------------------------------------------- Luke Kuechly, Fletcher Cox and Chandler Jones all taken after we TRADED UP for Trent Richardson at #3 David DeCastro, Dont'a Hightower, Harrison Smith, Alshon Jeffery, Bobby Wagner all taken after we took Brandon Weeden #22 a pick aquired via trade down ---------------------------------------------------------- Sheldon Richardson, Kyle Long, DeAndre Hopkins all taken after we took Barkevious Mingo at #6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Barr, Taylor Lewan, Oden Beckham Jr., Aaron Donald, Zack Martin, C.J. Mosley all taken after we took Justin Gilbert #8 again after TRADING UP from #10 Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr taken after we took Johnny Manziel #22 AGAIN AFTER A TRADE UP Plenty enough evidence for me to feel more than comfortable trading down if the option presents it self while on the clock. This is beyond depressing. But honestly, the real issue isn't that the trade downs per say were a bad idea, the issue is that we are historically HORRID at evaluating talent. I mean bad. Really bad. REEEAAAAAAALLY bad. That, more than scheme or coach, is why we've sucked for nearly 20 years. Hopefully now, with some acknowledged top personnel men now in place, this will finally change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, Mind Character said: When we take Allen number 1 overall Darnold and Rosen will fall in their laps....silly didn't you see Kiper's mock ? Yeah but bosko's wrong mock had us taking some Darnold guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosko1616 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Who would the Bills give up all of that for? Mayfield/Jackson/Allen? Most likely Mayfield or Allen if he balls out. Trading up for any other position would require much less but because it’s for a QB it’s much more. What’s the difference btwn trading a 1st and a 2nd in 18 and a 1st and a 3rd in 19 ? We’ve gotten more for much less spots jumped before. It really isn’t that much if you look at it also. We’re taking on Glenn’s contract ( I’m assuming JT hangs it up ) 2 1st a 2nd and a bad contract is a fair deal for your QBOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, bosko1616 said: Most likely Mayfield or Allen if he balls out. Trading up for any other position would require much less but because it’s for a QB it’s much more. What’s the difference btwn trading a 1st and a 2nd in 18 and a 1st and a 3rd in 19 ? We’ve gotten more for much less spots jumped before. It really isn’t that much if you look at it also. We’re taking on Glenn’s contract ( I’m assuming JT hangs it up ) 2 1st a 2nd and a bad contract is a fair deal for your QBOF Future firsts are valued lower than current firsts though. I really don't think we'd get a 2nd thrown in unless it was a future 2nd. Then again if they loved a prospect anything could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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