2018 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[jolly red giant]

2 hours ago, champ11 said:

I heard a good point about Cousins. If he goes to the Vikings, there will be Super Bowl expectations. If he gets sold on what the Broncos have going on....they are coming off a terrible season. Might be more appealing to not have the ridiculously high expectations, even though of course our fan base is ridiculous....but he might not know that lol.

If Cousins doesn't want expectations then he signs with the Browns.

[champ11]

7 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

If Cousins doesn't want expectations then he signs with the Browns.

I think he wants a functional organization after being in Washington. I just think the expectations in Minnesota would be pretty insane after getting to the NFCCG with Keenum. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

If Cousins doesn't want expectations then he signs with the Browns.

 

1 hour ago, champ11 said:

I think he wants a functional organization after being in Washington. I just think the expectations in Minnesota would be pretty insane after getting to the NFCCG with Keenum. 

Keep in mind that Cousins has clearly said the chance to win a SB early factors into his decision.  He's not likely to shy away from high expectations - it's more a hybrid of how much a contender might low-ball him vs. the highest bidder.   

Honestly, I don't see Cousins coming to us - unless MIN gets greedy, and gives an insane low-ball offer, he's wearing purple next year.  We'll find out soon enough.

Having said that, while it's very much the lying season, if Hue Jackson is serious about not wanting to start a rookie QB Week 1 - that actually justifies them taking the most talented-but- not-ready (and maybe never ready) physical talent in Josh Allen.   If that happens, and we have a legit shot at Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold at 1.3 (I'm assuming the other guys goes 1.2 if CLE passes on either QB at 1.1), then a move up to 1.3 (which wouldn't necessarily cost our 2019 1st, but would cost) - I'd be all for.   I know Mayfield gets a ton of love, but I love both Rosen/Darnold (and their length of play at an elite level and body of work with having to make pro-level throws, which sadly Mayfield wasn't asked to do in that system), I have no problem on that gamble on Darnold/Rosen, especially as a 1.5 to 1.3 move likely costs a 2nd/3rd-4th (or a 2nd this year and 3rd next year).      If it cost us a 2019 1st, it's iffier, as that could still be a top 5-10 pick, if Elway's rebuild fails (and that's too steep given we're not dealing with lock guys like healthy Luck V2), but if we can move up and get our guy and not lose the 2019 1st....well, that's really interesting.

 

[bMiller031]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

If Cousins doesn't want expectations then he signs with the Browns.

He won't- but I'd consider Cleveland, if I'm Kirk Cousins.

Three first round picks last year (including Myles Garrett), two in the top four this year, and a TON of money to spend. Garrett, Cousins, 1.1, and 1.4. That's not a bad place to start, especially when you consider the trade value of the two firsts this year. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 minute ago, bMiller031 said:

He won't- but I'd consider Cleveland, if I'm Kirk Cousins.

Three first round picks last year (including Myles Garrett), two in the top four this year, and a TON of money to spend. Garrett, Cousins, 1.1, and 1.4. That's not a bad place to start, especially when you consider the trade value of the two firsts this year. 

And then you look at Jimmy Haslem and it all comes crashing down. This is a guy who just left Dan Snyder's franchise. He's not going to Cleveland. 

[bMiller031]

Just now, AnAngryAmerican said:

And then you look at Jimmy Haslem and it all comes crashing down. This is a guy who just left Dan Snyder's franchise. He's not going to Cleveland. 

Hence my first couple words. 

[Dashing202]

I'd feel bad if Denver signed cousins . He sucks on prime time games and he's overrated . His stats mislead everyone thinking he's elite when he's not .

if kubiak was still head coach along with Phillips than I would of said " good move ". But this broncos team is getting older and with a worst coaching staff.

signing cousins would hold you back . Rather best y'all just draft mayfield and rebuild this team a bit . I think a full rebuild would be wise imo.

[paul-mac]

I just think paying $30m a year to a bang average QB is a terrible move.

[iLikeDefense]

As the offseason continues to move on, I am beginning to really like the idea of grabbing a QB like Teddy B or TT for a short term deal and hoping we can land Rosen/Darnold at #5. I'm just not into Kirk as much anymore. I think he's just too expensive for my taste. Elway will probably go all in and I can't fault him.

[thebestever6]

20 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

As the offseason continues to move on, I am beginning to really like the idea of grabbing a QB like Teddy B or TT for a short term deal and hoping we can land Rosen/Darnold at #5. I'm just not into Kirk as much anymore. I think he's just too expensive for my taste. Elway will probably go all in and I can't fault him.

I hope  like with Brock he doesn't land him

[champ11]

37 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

As the offseason continues to move on, I am beginning to really like the idea of grabbing a QB like Teddy B or TT for a short term deal and hoping we can land Rosen/Darnold at #5. I'm just not into Kirk as much anymore. I think he's just too expensive for my taste. Elway will probably go all in and I can't fault him.

I had a dream we took Rosen last night 

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

I just think paying $30m a year to a bang average QB is a terrible move.

That $30m figure has come back down to the Earth in recent weeks. I understand not wanting to spend a fortune on one player, any one player, to refer to Cousins as "average" is just flat out ignorant. He's not Aaron Rodgers but he's far better than average. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

38 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

As the offseason continues to move on, I am beginning to really like the idea of grabbing a QB like Teddy B or TT for a short term deal and hoping we can land Rosen/Darnold at #5. I'm just not into Kirk as much anymore. I think he's just too expensive for my taste. Elway will probably go all in and I can't fault him.

So go for a stop-gap, veteran "bridge" QB and let the rookie develop for a year or two? 

Great idea. That allows us to waste another year of our defense, go somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 which gets us neither anywhere closer to a Super Bowl but also keeps us out of the top half of the draft and will basically assure Vance gets fired. That way, we go into another offseason with a new coaching staff who brings all new schemes and approaches but we're hamstrung in that coaching search because whomever we hire is going to be married to the rookie we drafted but who never played and thus remains a complete unknown. And that coaching staff won't have any premium draft picks to get players who fit their scheme. 

Seriously, the mediocre veteran QB + whatever rookie QB falls to five is literally the worst decision this franchise could make. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

^^For the record, I am all for Vance getting fired. I didn't like the hire in the first place and I've seen nothing since to convince me that he is NFL head coach material. 

My point is rather if we're going to get a rookie, whether it's one of the more-polished (Rosen, Darnold) or one of the more-raw (Allen, Mayfield, Jackson), we need to play them next year. And not just play them, they need to start all 16 games (if healthy) regardless of how they play. That way, when Vance is fired, we have plenty of tape to show prospective head coach candidates who they will be married to at QB for at least their first season here. If all a HC candidate has to go on is whatever preconceived notions he had on said QB from the draft evaluation process (and what if he comes from a team with an established QB and his team didn't bother to scout this year's QB crop at all?) then we're limiting a potential pool of candidates. 

[Broncofan]

35 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

^^For the record, I am all for Vance getting fired. I didn't like the hire in the first place and I've seen nothing since to convince me that he is NFL head coach material. 

My point is rather if we're going to get a rookie, whether it's one of the more-polished (Rosen, Darnold) or one of the more-raw (Allen, Mayfield, Jackson), we need to play them next year. And not just play them, they need to start all 16 games (if healthy) regardless of how they play. That way, when Vance is fired, we have plenty of tape to show prospective head coach candidates who they will be married to at QB for at least their first season here. If all a HC candidate has to go on is whatever preconceived notions he had on said QB from the draft evaluation process (and what if he comes from a team with an established QB and his team didn't bother to scout this year's QB crop at all?) then we're limiting a potential pool of candidates. 

If we are getting Rosen-Darnold, they should play all 16 games.   And they will no doubt have bumps on Year 1 - Goff/Wentz struggled mightily Year 1, same with Mariota/Winston, and yes, so did Luck/Peyton (who were far greater prospects at same stage of development).    Agree we can't spend even 15M AAV for 2+ years on a stopgap if we spend 1.5 on QB.

I'd only amend the statement that a 1-year placeholder/backup-in-case-of-injury that's cheap (last of the vets who gets left out in the cold) is totally fine, if it's a sushi-raw guy (Lamar/Allen) - Mayfield is just such an enigma, in-between (nowhere near the same concerns of being ready as Lamar/Allen year 1 except being under center <that needs work>, just unclear as to how the skills translate ultimately ceiling-wise), not sure if he'd need to sit or not for 4-6 games.   It's why landing Rosen/Darnold to me, even if it means moving to 1.3 (and not 1.1, since 1.1 costs us our 1st rounder in 2019, which still could be a top 5-10 pick), is worth exploring.  That's dependent on Rosen/Darnold not going 1.1 - 1.2...so again, as I've said b4 and I'll keep saying, CLE's moves at 1.1 dictate our moves there.   

The beauty is that if we are committed to go QB at 1.5 (or think about moving up to 1.3 if CLE passes on Darnold/Rosen) - either way, we can wait on a FA QB until the draft - because we'll be seeing them as a Mike Glennon-type situation.   One-year guaranteed, at low base.   The best FA's will have signed, but at least 1-2 vets will still be looking for a job, while teams do exactly what we are doing - seeing who our rookie is before deciding on a vet.  Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if 2-3 serviceable vets like McCown, Bridgewater, etc. - are available.  And then we choose an affordable one-year guy if we don't get Rosen/Darnold. 

I don't think we go after anyone desirable enough to commit 15 M AAV and multiple years guaranteed - that's very fair.  But the vet QB market is going to be more saturated than in other years - so we can wait until the draft to see if we need to go that way - who we get in the draft makes that call.   All of which assumes we don't get Cousins, of course, but I think we're clearly not in the driver's seat there.