2018 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

. I will say though, Denver needs to get younger across the board. The team is old, the team is also not as talented as the fanbase seems to believe.

Excellent summation of our roster problems.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

I can see both sides of the keep Talib/don't keep Talib argument. I will say though, Denver needs to get younger across the board. The team is old, the team is also not as talented as the fanbase seems to believe. If we don't land Cousins, I do see an argument for keeping Talib, but at the same time, we should face reality that if we don't land Cousins, we aren't going to contend this year or likely next. Given that, we should clear Talib's contract and try and find younger players for that money, IMO.

 

1 hour ago, broncofan48 said:

I agree or if we go rookie QB save the money for big time free agents and target the last 3 years of the QBs rookie deal for a super bowl push ala Seattle and philly this year 

Agreed - if we go rookie we are realistically calling 2019 as best case window for contention.   I’m fine with that.   We won’t outright fold but like last year when we accumulated rollover we shouldn’t be going all-in for 2018.  We aren’t even close to addressing our other key needs.  And we know year 1 is a learning curve year even for the best rookie guys.   It’s a no brainer to be thinking 2019 if we are going rookie 1.5.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

17 hours ago, Broncofan said:

If floating Keenum's name is to gauge the fanbase's interest...well let's say it's been a rather unanimous response.   LOL at the heat this option is getting.  

Now if it actually happened....

You think that might be what they're doing? If so, like you said, they cannot be happy with the returns. This is already a team with some PR problems between the ownership situation, the lack of a naming rights partner, the lower approval ratings of Ellis and Elway and the 1974 Nixon-like approval ratings of Vance. Signing Keenum would not help matters much. The good news, however, is my girl is on the season ticket waiting list, around 30,000 down, so a couple bad seasons and her and I could find ourselves at Mile High every fall Sunday in a year or two. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I can see both sides of the keep Talib/don't keep Talib argument. I will say though, Denver needs to get younger across the board. The team is old, the team is also not as talented as the fanbase seems to believe. If we don't land Cousins, I do see an argument for keeping Talib, but at the same time, we should face reality that if we don't land Cousins, we aren't going to contend this year or likely next. Given that, we should clear Talib's contract and try and find younger players for that money, IMO.

I think, unless we land Cousins and need the money, why offer Talib a short extension and spread the cap hit out over the next two to three years? The guy is an important part of the locker room and still playing at an elite level.

If we do land Cousins I think we need to trade down from No. 5 and that opens up the chance to take Denzel Ward, Josh Jackson, Isiah Oliver, etc. Without a need at QB, and Barkley all but assured to go before No. 5 comes up, there really isn't a prospect who is both worthy of a top-five pick and one who fills a need. I'd rather trade down, say with Buffalo, and a CB + Hernandez than stay at No. 5 and get Quenton Nelson. 

[DiehardBronxFan]

Assuming we don’t get Cousins and have some $ available, is it worth taking a run at Solder?  lots of Quality Guards available in the draft - OT seems a little more uncertain. 

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

Assuming we don’t get Cousins and have some $ available, is it worth taking a run at Solder?  lots of Quality Guards available in the draft - OT seems a little more uncertain. 

Paying a 30 year old tackle big bucks is dumb.  Whitworth is an exception not the norm.

[germ-x]

20 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Paying a 30 year old tackle big bucks is dumb.  Whitworth is an exception not the norm.

The biggest thing with Solder is he’s NFL average and likely gets a 4-5 years and a 50-60 million dollar deal.  Even with with the greatest QB of all time who gets the ball out as quickly as anyone in the history of the game Solder has been average. 

IMO, Denver needs to look for the bargain players along the OL.  Josh Sitton, as I mentioned in another thread, looks like one of those types.  Still plays at an elite level, but at his age likely comes with a 3 year deal in the $20-25 million range.

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, germ-x said:

The biggest thing with Solder is he’s NFL average and likely gets a 4-5 years and a 50-60 million dollar deal.  Even with with the greatest QB of all time who gets the ball out as quickly as anyone in the history of the game Solder has been average. 

IMO, Denver needs to look for the bargain players along the OL.  Josh Sitton, as I mentioned in another thread, looks like one of those types.  Still plays at an elite level, but at his age likely comes with a 3 year deal in the $20-25 million range.

I hear we're  in on Jawan James from Miami. He's young and solid. I wonder what he will cost? I agree on Solder honestly think he's worse than Okung.

[Broncofan]

55 minutes ago, germ-x said:

The biggest thing with Solder is he’s NFL average and likely gets a 4-5 years and a 50-60 million dollar deal.  Even with with the greatest QB of all time who gets the ball out as quickly as anyone in the history of the game Solder has been average. 

IMO, Denver needs to look for the bargain players along the OL.  Josh Sitton, as I mentioned in another thread, looks like one of those types.  Still plays at an elite level, but at his age likely comes with a 3 year deal in the $20-25 million range.

Whitworth also only signed a 2-year deal (3 in name but the guarantees and cap hit made it easy to walk away after 2 years), and it was even possible to walk away after 1 year.  There is almost no chance Solder gives anyone that friendly of a deal.   He really was the no-brainer call to go after last year over Leary, given the positional premium and our situation.  Oh well.  

Either way, though, given our situation now we're better off going younger and looking to build with sustainable solutions that have 2-3 year hope...we're not getting quick fixes now.  

[thebestever6]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Whitworth also only signed a 2-year deal (3 in name but the guarantees and cap hit made it easy to walk away after 2 years), and it was even possible to walk away after 1 year.  There is almost no chance Solder gives anyone that friendly of a deal.

Thats also a very good point. I'm  tired of spending money to be average to below average. I don't get it  this fan base is smarter than that. I hope Elway doesn't go that route. That's essentially putting lipstick on a pig.

[germ-x]

9 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Whitworth also only signed a 2-year deal (3 in name but the guarantees and cap hit made it easy to walk away after 2 years), and it was even possible to walk away after 1 year.  There is almost no chance Solder gives anyone that friendly of a deal.   He really was the no-brainer call to go after last year over Leary, given the positional premium and our situation.  Oh well.  

Either way, though, given our situation now we're better off going younger and looking to build with sustainable solutions that have 2-3 year hope...we're not getting quick fixes now.  

I don’t agree with the last paragraph.  There’s absolutely no reason to spend more money and give longer contracts to free agents just because they’re young.

Regardless of if one thinks Denver is in full rebuild or not, you give money where there is value.  You draft players where there is value.

Josh Sitton may very well be the bang for your buck offensive lineman in this free agency.  If Denver’s able to get him at good value I really don’t care that he’s 32.  This concept actually can be valuable, especially to a team who may be starting a rookie QB.  Not only would a guy like Sitton be a huge upgrade to the OL, but the contract is likely set up where he can be cut within a year or 2, basically killing 2 birds with one stone.  Denver can still draft behind Sitton/Leary with upside mid round picks, they aren’t breaking the bank with either, and can move on from both without cap hits if/when needed and in the meantime have the 2017 #5 overall OG (Sitton), the #8 overall OC (Paradis), and the #9 overall OG (Leary) as the starting interior all on fair deals.  I’ll take that over some young player that will need to be overpaid (Norwell) or drafted (Nelson) to protect a rookie QB.

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I don’t agree with the last paragraph.  There’s absolutely no reason to spend more money and give longer contracts to free agents just because they’re young.

Regardless of if one thinks Denver is in full rebuild or not, you give money where there is value.  You draft players where there is value.

Josh Sitton may very well be the bang for your buck offensive lineman in this free agency.  If Denver’s able to get him at good value I really don’t care that he’s 32.  This concept actually can be valuable, especially to a team who may be starting a rookie QB.  Not only would a guy like Sitton be a huge upgrade to the OL, but the contract is likely set up where he can be cut within a year or 2, basically killing 2 birds with one stone.  Denver can still draft behind Sitton/Leary with upside mid round picks, they aren’t breaking the bank with either, and can move on from both without cap hits if/when needed and in the meantime have the 2017 #5 overall OG (Sitton), the #8 overall OC (Paradis), and the #9 overall OG (Leary) as the starting interior all on fair deals.  I’ll take that over some young player that will need to be overpaid (Norwell) or drafted (Nelson) to protect a rookie QB.

Sitton isn’t going to command the same $ as LT or likely as many years so I’m less against him than Solder.  But honestly OG/C is where I prefer to draft on Day 2 given we are going rookie / stopgap vet.  

There’s a built in draft inefficiency I’d love us to exploit.  You know instead of the guys Elway usually picks Rd 2-3 (that’s the flaw in my plan lol).  We go rookie QB we are admitting 2019 is our real target.  I’m ok with that.  Bargain FA is where we are stuck until we start getting more value picks that can deliver starter level play at rookie contract prices.  

[germ-x]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Sitton isn’t going to command the same $ as LT or likely as many years so I’m less against him than Solder.  But honestly OG/C is where I prefer to draft on Day 2 given we are going rookie / stopgap vet.  

There’s a built in draft inefficiency I’d love us to exploit.  You know instead of the guys Elway usually picks Rd 2-3 (that’s the flaw in my plan lol).  We go rookie QB we are admitting 2019 is our real target.  I’m ok with that.  Bargain FA is where we are stuck until we start getting more value picks that can deliver starter level play at rookie contract prices.  

I get it, but here’s my thinking.  If Denver goes with a rookie QB at 1.5, it’d be nice to be able to protect him.  Sure there are rookie OGs I like that could be had late 1st or even 2nd round 2.40.  But none are a guarantee and Sitton, again, likely comes on a more than fair deal at 32 years old and is one of the best pass protecting OGs over numerous years in the NFL.  His addition also likely helps out Bolles at LT in ways a rookie LG wouldn’t.

Adding Sitton also means that pick at 2.40 no longer needs to be used along the interior.  Let’s not forget Denver could use a RT, possibly a WR, a RB if Anderson is cut, a DB, an ILB, and I wouldn’t count out a defensive lineman if the right player is available.

The NFL also churns out quality mid round offensive lineman yearly, especially interior offensive lineman.  With Sitton, Paradis, Leary projected to start and McGovern showing flashes last season (and able to play all 3 positions) Denver would be in a great position to use 1 of their mid round picks on an interior player to develop.  Depending on how quickly if/when McGovern and the mid round draft pick are ready Denver can, if they want, cut bait on Sitton or Leary and use that cap space to target a different position in FA that’s a bigger need in future seasons.  At this point a rookie QB after a couple seasons and if everything goes as planned, has gotten his feet wet and can help mask some OL flaws.  

 

[jolly red giant]

15 hours ago, germ-x said:

I get it, but here’s my thinking.  If Denver goes with a rookie QB at 1.5, it’d be nice to be able to protect him.  Sure there are rookie OGs I like that could be had late 1st or even 2nd round 2.40.  But none are a guarantee and Sitton, again, likely comes on a more than fair deal at 32 years old and is one of the best pass protecting OGs over numerous years in the NFL.  His addition also likely helps out Bolles at LT in ways a rookie LG wouldn’t.

 

if you go rookie then you really have no choice but to protect him best as possible - and that means signing Vet OL - coupled with the fact that 1.5 will have to be used and a trade down is no longer an option.

[Broncofan]

18 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

if you go rookie then you really have no choice but to protect him best as possible - and that means signing Vet OL - coupled with the fact that 1.5 will have to be used and a trade down is no longer an option.

Remember, if we go rookie QB at 1.5, the likelihood we get a 1-year bridge vet QB is high (but not more than a 1-year contract guy).   McCown, Bridgewater, etc.  Someone who won't get a multi-year offer (that eliminates Keenum IMO).