Todd Haley Leaving Pittsburgh; QB coach Randy Fichtner to replace him

[MSURacerDT55]

11 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

And way to conveniently omit his time in Kansas City when he didnt have a top 5 QB and elite WR talent to work with

This is why you keep kids in the corner while grown folk are talking.

 

2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

As an offensive coordinator with the Cardinals his offense was 3rd, and with the Steelers his offenses were 22nd, 16th, 7th, 4th, 10th and 8th. A little detail for you, thanks for the call....

AS AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, As an offensive coordinator means as an offensive coordinator. His offensive coordinators in Kansas City who you say I "conveniently omitted" were Chan Gailey and Charlie Weis. Enjoy your chicken tenders and apple juice hoss....

[fluhartz]

10 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Comment is pointless.    Steeler fans were talking about this long long before the Browns hired him.

His offense itself is fine.     His gameplanning and situational playcalling?   Good luck.   

Yep.... just the latest game against the Jags is the epitome of what you are saying.

Scored a ton of points on the day..but the two forth and short calls were just mind boggling..

[August4th]

9 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

Yep.... just the latest game against the Jags is the epitome of what you are saying.

Scored a ton of points on the day..but the two forth and short calls were just mind boggling..

and most of the points came from our talented skill players and ben making great plays

[MSURacerDT55]

28 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

Yep.... just the latest game against the Jags is the epitome of what you are saying.

Scored a ton of points on the day..but the two forth and short calls were just mind boggling..

Or..................................................Maybe not give up 45 points, get blown off the ball for 4 rushing TDs, and a pee wee football TD from a play action pop pass to the fullback. But sweet, blame the offense.

Edited January 23, 2018 by MSURacerDT55

[skywlker32]

3 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Or..................................................Maybe not give up 45 points, 4 rushing TDs, and a pee wee football TD from a play action pop pass to the fullback. But sweet, blame the offense.

No one is saying the defense played even good that game, but Haley had a lot of issues in that game, I outlined them previously, but at least 2 of the drives were no huddle (aka Haley mostly hands off with playcalling), 2 turnovers led to direct or indirect points for the other team and the godawful back to back pitch plays on 3rd/4th and 1. Go ahead and talk down to people when you don't know what you're talking about, but you look real silly with all the baby talk.

[MSURacerDT55]

13 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

No one is saying the defense played even good that game, but Haley had a lot of issues in that game, I outlined them previously, but at least 2 of the drives were no huddle (aka Haley mostly hands off with playcalling), 2 turnovers led to direct or indirect points for the other team and the godawful back to back pitch plays on 3rd/4th and 1. Go ahead and talk down to people when you don't know what you're talking about, but you look real silly with all the baby talk.

Apparently it wasn't obvious that IF YOU GET MORE STOPS/PLAY BETTER DEFENSE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE IN POSITION TO HAVE TO GO FOR IT ON FOUTH DOWN, YOUR OFFENSE WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WIN. More than fair to say....

Edited January 23, 2018 by MSURacerDT55

[skywlker32]

1 minute ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Apparently it wasn't obvious that IF YOU GET MORE STOPS/PLAY BETTER DEFENSE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE IN POSITION TO HAVE TO GO FOR IT ON FOUTH DOWN, YOUR OFFENSE WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WIN. Hopefully the caps help....

And NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE DEFENSIVE PERFORMANCE, THE OC STILL CALLED A PISS POOR GAME. Is that how that's done? And also, the offense contributed to the defensive scoring as I mentioned. The Jags game is being used as an example of his repeated ineptitude anyways. He constantly, had gameplans that didn't make sense for the matchups and would go away from what was working for the offense. He doesn't call intermediate routes and play action was not used much, despite a QB that is good at running play action and a top RB threat.

But yea ignore that and be happy that Haley might be coming to Cleveland. He may improve your offense, but he is not a good OC.

[MWil23]

I guess for me, as a Browns fan, it boils down to this:

1. It couldn't possibly get worse than last year, LITERALLY. Wait...I guess it could...we could have not been preseason champs.

2. Anyone is better than Hue calling 3+ vertical routes in a play, which he did twice as much as the next team.

3. Haley certainly has his faults, but I'd also love to see the statistical output when he had ALL 3 in Ben, Brown, and Bell together. Injuries have taken their toll on that team.

4. They could have done better in the Red Zone than they did in Pittsburgh.

5. Haley is a jerk, but I also feel like if he were more "likeable", then people wouldn't really hold a lot of the above against him.

6. I do think that to a large degree, Haley was scape-goated due to the JAX loss.

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

 with the Steelers his offenses were 22nd, 16th, 7th, 4th, 10th and 8th. 

So what your saying is that your just box score scouting and that HoF QB, #1 RB, #1 WR, Juju and top offensive line that the he had in Pittsburgh are all just a product of the great Todd Haley......gotcha. 

With what he's had to work with there is absolutely no reason in the world why the Steelers should not have the #1 offense in the league damn near every single year. Yet, they haven't. Not once. That's the epitome of an offense being held back by piss poor coaching. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by JustAnotherFan

[43M]

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I guess for me, as a Browns fan, it boils down to this:

1. It couldn't possibly get worse than last year, LITERALLY. Wait...I guess it could...we could have not been preseason champs.

This is what Im thinking.

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

2. Anyone is better than Hue calling 3+ vertical routes in a play, which he did twice as much as the next team.

Perhaps, but Haley calling predictable screens and toss sweeps on 3rd and short will eventually get old, too.

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

3. Haley certainly has his faults, but I'd also love to see the statistical output when he had ALL 3 in Ben, Brown, and Bell together. Injuries have taken their toll on that team.

???

Ben, Bell and Brown were healthy together all of 2017 until Brown got hurt.   The offense still stagnated much more than it should have.   Was it ALL on Haley?  Of course not, but his gameplanning, especially early on in the season, was absolutely abysmal.  

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

4. They could have done better in the Red Zone than they did in Pittsburgh.

Haley's playcalling in the redzone and in short yardage situations was often an issue.

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

5. Haley is a jerk, but I also feel like if he were more "likeable", then people wouldn't really hold a lot of the above against him.

I dont care what Haley is like as a person.  It doesnt affect me.   It has no bearing on how I feel about his playcalling ability.

However, him being a jerk can have a negative affect on the players.

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

6. I do think that to a large degree, Haley was scape-goated due to the JAX loss.

Haley's contract was up and there were rumblings that he might not be retained due to the offense being inconsistent and his rocky relationship with Ben.

The Jags loss didnt help, but I certainly wouldnt call him a scapegoat.     I think his deteriorating relationship with Ben was the biggest reason.

[MSURacerDT55]

37 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

So what your saying is that your just box score scouting and that HoF QB, #1 RB, #1 WR, Juju and top offensive line that the he had in Pittsburgh are all just a product of the great Todd Haley......gotcha. 

With what he's had to work with there is absolutely no reason in the world why the Steelers should not have the #1 offense in the league damn near every single year. Yet, they haven't. Not once. That's the epitome of an offense being held back by piss poor coaching. 

Two things, you do know this wasn't Haley's first go around as an OC, and second, there is no way you last 5 years in Pittsburgh and be a piss poor coach. Its amazing how these guys are minimizing Haley when he already had a great reputation as an OC prior to Pittsburgh.

Edited January 23, 2018 by MSURacerDT55

[MSURacerDT55]

42 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

. I do think that to a large degree, Haley was scape-goated due to the JAX loss.

If anyone needs to be the scapegoat, it should be Keith Butler. This is as unbiased as there is, but Haley's contract was up so they made it seem like they got rid up him when in reality they just didn't renew his contract.

[fluhartz]

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Or..................................................Maybe not give up 45 points, get blown off the ball for 4 rushing TDs, and a pee wee football TD from a play action pop pass to the fullback. But sweet, blame the offense.

no.... I agree 100% that the defense lost that game.. That was embarrassing or at least should have been for them.. I was just agreeing that some situational stuff Haley has no clue...or always thinks he's smarter than everyone else and does something dumb..... but rant on

I don't really give a ****... I hate the stealers and the browns..... so I don't care where he goes.. .I was just saying that part of it is probably true

[MWil23]

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

This is what Im thinking.

Thinking or not, that's a fact. It literally can't get worse than 0-16.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Perhaps, but Haley calling predictable screens and toss sweeps on 3rd and short will eventually get old, too.

Ah, a screen pass. I haven't seen this in Cleveland EVER run effectively on a consistent basis. Maybe it will get old, but it can't get worse than 3+ verts, ending in an INT or a sack. I'd have killed for a failed 3rd down conversion and a punt. It's honestly commical.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

???

Ben, Bell and Brown were healthy together all of 2017 until Brown got hurt.   The offense still stagnated much more than it should have.   Was it ALL on Haley?  Of course not, but his gameplanning, especially early on in the season, was absolutely abysmal.  

You watch a lot more PITT games than I do. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on a lot of it. That said, Ben can be a drive killer holding onto the ball and sometimes has that River Boat Gambler/Gun Slinger mentality. Down the stretch Haley/the play-calling definitely put them in a position to be successful, and I thought that collectively they played some great team-offense, utilizing Shuster, Bryant, Bell, Brown, and Ben.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Haley's playcalling in the redzone and in short yardage situations was often an issue.

Like I said, I'm not discounting that, but to what degree was it because they lacked a true Red Zone receiving threat (Bryant not being suspended made him a decent option) at the TE and WR positions. Brown is AWESOME and the best in the game, but his lack of size isn't ideal in the Red Zone. Some of this HAS TO fall on Haley, but if you have the best trio in the league and they can't put up points, I put a lot of this on the HOF QB and Head Coach as well.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I dont care what Haley is like as a person.  It doesnt affect me.   It has no bearing on how I feel about his playcalling ability.

However, him being a jerk can have a negative affect on the players.

I wasn't talking specifically to you and your bearing, but rather on the collective decision to let him go.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Haley's contract was up and there were rumblings that he might not be retained due to the offense being inconsistent and his rocky relationship with Ben.

If there's ever a disconnect between an OC and a HOF QB, we all know who will be leaving.

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

The Jags loss didnt help, but I certainly wouldnt call him a scapegoat.     I think his deteriorating relationship with Ben was the biggest reason.

As much as I love Tomlin, I think that he needs to figure out how to reign in guys like Bell and Bryant, who clearly have said/done things that were detrimental to the team in the last weeks. Even some of what Brown has done is a distraction.

Maybe there's nothing that he can do/anyone outside of New England would have these issues, but I think Haley took too much of this. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[MSURacerDT55]

33 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

no.... I agree 100% that the defense lost that game.. That was embarrassing or at least should have been for them.. I was just agreeing that some situational stuff Haley has no clue...or always thinks he's smarter than everyone else and does something dumb..... but rant on

I don't really give a ****... I hate the stealers and the browns..... so I don't care where he goes.. .I was just saying that part of it is probably true

Thats fine, Im just big picture guy. They scored more than enough points to win and if they could have gotten more stops, they would have been in position to have to even go for it on 4th. Also for those saying Ben is the whole offense and is the playcaller, it was his decision to check out of the QB sneak to throw the incomplete pass on 4th down trying to play hero.

Edited January 23, 2018 by MSURacerDT55