hitnhope Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: You lose ALL credibility when you mention Denzel Mims when you're talking about WRs in the Jets' locker room. He finished 9th in targets among all players on the Jets last year. He's a bust. Arguing otherwise is asinine. The only reason you're mentioning him is because he's a former SRP. Stop using draft status to inflate players' value. Is Mim's a WR on their roster? If I didn't include him you would say I lose ALL credibility by not naming him. I didn't want to be accused of ignoring the lesser players. Did I trype that Lazard was the #5 or #6 receive? NO. My point made was accurate even though you want to deflect. Is Lazard more of a receiving threat than Wilson or Moore? Is he even more if a threat than Davis? I stated he was a 3 or 4 which was accurate. Your entire argument is a strawman. You should strive to be better than this. He is at best a #3 on the Jets and getting paid $11 million. This contract shouldn't be used as evidence of anything other than that #3 receivers are now making as much as $11 mill per year. Stop over inflating Packers player values. We saw what happened when they needed to rely on Lazard as a primary threat. The offense became ineffective because his best talent by far as a WR is blocking. I said that Lazard as a #1 would be a problem going into the last season and was given all kinds of heat by people like you. I was right then, and I'm right here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, hitnhope said: Is Mim's a WR on their roster? If I didn't include him you would say I lose ALL credibility by not naming him. I didn't want to be accused of ignoring the lesser players. Did I trype that Lazard was the #5 or #6 receive? NO. My point made was accurate even though you want to deflect. Is Lazard more of a receiving threat than Wilson or Moore? Is he even more if a threat than Davis? I stated he was a 3 or 4 which was accurate. Your entire argument is a strawman. You should strive to be better than this. He is at best a #3 on the Jets and getting paid $11 million. This contract shouldn't be used as evidence of anything other than that #3 receivers are now making as much as $11 mill per year. Stop over inflating Packers player values. We saw what happened when they needed to rely on Lazard as a primary threat. The offense became ineffective because his best talent by far as a WR is blocking. I said that Lazard as a #1 would be a problem going into the last season and was given all kinds of heat by people like you. I was right then, and I'm right here. He's a WR on the roster the same sense that Bo Melton is a WR on the Packers' roster. He's not someone going to alter the equation of that WR room. And they're certainly not paying Lazard $11M/year to throw to Denzel Mims. Mims is a pretty obvious camp casualty. Maybe someone comes in and gambles on him and sends a conditional late Day 3 pick the Jets way to see what they can get out of him. But he's not in the Jets' future at all. You chose to make an argument based on non-factual information, and I'm not wasting my time on that. Teams don't pay WRs $11M/year for 4 years for them to be WR4. I'd argue that he and Corey Davis are redundant, and I think preference probably separates the two of them. Garrett Wilson is clearly their #1 WR. That's not arguable. Elijah Moore probably offers more upside than Allen Lazard, but I think he also has a lower floor. And they're completely different body types. And I'm not inflating values. And unlike you choose to believe, the lack of weapons wasn't the only thing plaguing the Packers' offense last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, CWood21 said: He's a WR on the roster the same sense that Bo Melton is a WR on the Packers' roster. He's not someone going to alter the equation of that WR room. And they're certainly not paying Lazard $11M/year to throw to Denzel Mims. Mims is a pretty obvious camp casualty. Maybe someone comes in and gambles on him and sends a conditional late Day 3 pick the Jets way to see what they can get out of him. But he's not in the Jets' future at all. You chose to make an argument based on non-factual information, and I'm not wasting my time on that. Teams don't pay WRs $11M/year for 4 years for them to be WR4. I'd argue that he and Corey Davis are redundant, and I think preference probably separates the two of them. Garrett Wilson is clearly their #1 WR. That's not arguable. Elijah Moore probably offers more upside than Allen Lazard, but I think he also has a lower floor. And they're completely different body types. And I'm not inflating values. And unlike you choose to believe, the lack of weapons wasn't the only thing plaguing the Packers' offense last year. So, after all of this typing you agree that he is a #3 making $11 million. Was all the arguing about the point only to make you feel better? You state I made an argument based on non-factual information. What in my post wasn't factual? Your ability to read and digest the written word? I listed off a number of Jets WR (more than 3 and stated Lazard was a #3. You twisted my argument so you could argue and then proceed to agree with my post in the attached posts summary. BTW- Denzel Mim's was active for the entire season posted 16 catches for 186 yards. Bo Melton was activated for exactly 2 games- with no receiving stats at all. Mim's trying to get stats with Zach Wilson at QB. Saying they are equivalent is another example of inflating the value of players on the Packers roster. Or you are simply wrong about them being equivalent players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: Lol Austin Hooper. Those lovely debates with @packfanfb and every other TE/ILB fan here who sees production and can’t see talent (or a lack of it). Austin Hooper who was so so worth what he would get paid. Who would solidify the TE position “for years to come.” Austin Hooper, who wasn’t a byproduct of triple covered Jones and double covered whoever that other guy was. Austin Hooper, who just had less yards and the same amount of touchdowns as Robert Tonyan. Why do you all make this so easy for me? Hooper and Tonyan are the same age and just had the exact same season. The only difference is Tonyan was coming off his injury. Just re-sign Tonyan. These players are not who you think they are, and if they had just been Packers you would be wanting them to no longer be on this team. Tonyan should be out of our price range. Hooper is likely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 22 minutes ago, Sandy said: Tonyan should be out of our price range. Hooper is likely not. Spotrac was right on with the comp for Lazard. They have Tonyan at 1 year 5.5M. They have Hooper at 2 years, 13.4M. Just for what it is worth... And....Gesicki is still out here at TE. Moreau's value from them is 4 years, 36M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 51 minutes ago, hitnhope said: So, after all of this typing you agree that he is a #3 making $11 million. Was all the arguing about the point only to make you feel better? You state I made an argument based on non-factual information. What in my post wasn't factual? Your ability to read and digest the written word? I listed off a number of Jets WR (more than 3 and stated Lazard was a #3. You twisted my argument so you could argue and then proceed to agree with my post in the attached posts summary. BTW- Denzel Mim's was active for the entire season posted 16 catches for 186 yards. Bo Melton was activated for exactly 2 games- with no receiving stats at all. Mim's trying to get stats with Zach Wilson at QB. Saying they are equivalent is another example of inflating the value of players on the Packers roster. Or you are simply wrong about them being equivalent players? What he is saying is that Mims is no value, just like Bo Melton. Neither is seeing targets or even playing time over Lazard. I do not understand the narrative that MVS and Lazard are bums that floats around here. Both of them offer unique skill sets that help a team. Nobody is putting either in the HOF, or even in the Pro Bowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: What he is saying is that Mims is no value, just like Bo Melton. Neither is seeing targets or even playing time over Lazard. I do not understand the narrative that MVS and Lazard are bums that floats around here. Both of them offer unique skill sets that help a team. Nobody is putting either in the HOF, or even in the Pro Bowl. None of this ties to the post I responded to. he made the statement that nobody pays a #3 11 million. I responded that the Jets just did that. Mim's wasn't part of the discussion. CWood added him in as an argument that Lazard isn't going to be a #3 ignoring Wilson and Moore. Also ignoring Davis who is basically a Lazard clone. Who knows what Mim's will be when he gets decent QB play. Would you want to be a young receiver reliant on Zach Wilson? I never said Mim's was better than Lazard. Saying Bo Melton is as good as Mims is just about as ridiculous as that statement would be. I have not argued that Lazard is a bum. I have argued that Lazard isn't a #1 receiver. There is a lot of room between bum and #1 receiver. Lazard fits in that space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refugee Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: He's a WR on the roster the same sense that Bo Melton is a WR on the Packers' roster. He's not someone going to alter the equation of that WR room. And they're certainly not paying Lazard $11M/year to throw to Denzel Mims. Mims is a pretty obvious camp casualty. Maybe someone comes in and gambles on him and sends a conditional late Day 3 pick the Jets way to see what they can get out of him. But he's not in the Jets' future at all. You chose to make an argument based on non-factual information, and I'm not wasting my time on that. Teams don't pay WRs $11M/year for 4 years for them to be WR4. I'd argue that he and Corey Davis are redundant, and I think preference probably separates the two of them. Garrett Wilson is clearly their #1 WR. That's not arguable. Elijah Moore probably offers more upside than Allen Lazard, but I think he also has a lower floor. And they're completely different body types. And I'm not inflating values. And unlike you choose to believe, the lack of weapons wasn't the only thing plaguing the Packers' offense last year. Bo Melton probowl year as a returner and WR confirmed. I’ll be back in January to throw this post IN YOUR FACE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 33 minutes ago, Refugee said: Bo Melton probowl year as a returner and WR confirmed. I’ll be back in January to throw this post IN YOUR FACE! I suddenly don't like the Nixon signing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, hitnhope said: None of this ties to the post I responded to. he made the statement that nobody pays a #3 11 million. I responded that the Jets just did that. Mim's wasn't part of the discussion. CWood added him in as an argument that Lazard isn't going to be a #3 ignoring Wilson and Moore. Also ignoring Davis who is basically a Lazard clone. Who knows what Mim's will be when he gets decent QB play. Would you want to be a young receiver reliant on Zach Wilson? I never said Mim's was better than Lazard. Saying Bo Melton is as good as Mims is just about as ridiculous as that statement would be. I have not argued that Lazard is a bum. I have argued that Lazard isn't a #1 receiver. There is a lot of room between bum and #1 receiver. Lazard fits in that space. Two separate thoughts, I apologize if it looked like the same thing. I don't think Lazard is a #3, I think he is #2. He is massive, will move the chains, and is a very, very good blocker. Like most secondary WRs, he will have a couple 80-100 yard games, and disappear in some as well. He very likely is the second target now on the Jets. I will 100% say that Bo Melton and Denzel Mims are equal. And here is a hint, I don't think Bo Melton is much better than a lottery ticket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Sandy said: Tonyan should be out of our price range. Hooper is likely not. Lol. Why? They had the exact same seasons last year and Hooper has 2,000 more career receiving yards and 8 more career touchdowns than Tonyan. What makes you think Hooper is going to be cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Corey Davis is likely to get cut - with a $10.5mil cap savings. Lazard is cheaper this year, is comparable as a receiver and by far the better blocker and has the added value of already knowing at least the framework of the offense NYJ intends to run and knows their future QB quite well. 4 yr $44 mil contract is not going to work out to those numbers by the end, the contracts never do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I will 100% say that Bo Melton and Denzel Mims are equal. And here is a hint, I don't think Bo Melton is much better than a lottery ticket. Probably correct. I do know that if I was a young WR with the Jets the last couple years I'd want a chance to play with an actual NFL level QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 minute ago, hitnhope said: Probably correct. I do know that if I was a young WR with the Jets the last couple years I'd want a chance to play with an actual NFL level QB. And I wouldn't blame them a bit. I have just seen Mims thrown in as part of a Rodgers trade, and I feel like asking if they have any washing machines to go along with that. I am also on the fence whether or not I want a veteran WR at all. The guys with the most experience with Jordan Love, are currently on the Packers, MVS, EQ, and Lazard. I mean, what is the vet going to do, buy them beer? Just go young. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 If we are getting a WR from the Jets Mim's is not who I would be pushing for. I just think his athletic traits make him a better prospect then Bo Melton. 4 inches taller, 18 pounds heavier and a better college career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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