incognito_man Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Old Guy said: I'm 100% certain there is no language in his contract pertaining to his being required to get vaccinations of any kind. I am 100% you are wrong. I know this because a billion dollar organization fired him. One with teams of lawyers who understand the contract. A quick google search will show you that employers have a LOT of legal ability to fire employees for not taking a COVID vaccine. I'm well aware of his legal standings - I don't think you are. Edited July 23, 2021 by incognito_man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Just now, incognito_man said: I am 100% you are wrong. I know this because a billion dollar organization fired him. One with teams of lawyers who understand the contract. And I'm sure they know they are going to have to settle with him. This was a 'risk adverse' calculated guess on their part. It's cheaper to pay off these assistances than it is to potentially have to cancel games and have teams forfeit. Not to mention they have a separate set of rules for the players than the coaches. Players who are not vaccinated do not have the same restrictions/outcomes as coaches. We shall see! You have your thoughts on it and I have mine! Have a good day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Like all coaches, he's got a contract. I'm 100% certain there is no language in his contract pertaining to his being required to get vaccinations of any kind. Those health related things are usually vetted, physical, before a contract is signed in most instances. If it wasn't it is on the NFL not the coach. The NFL and NFLPA did this unilaterally, thus changing his contract without his approval. There is a clear infringement. I know you are pro-vax, but take that and your emotion on the subject out of it for a second, and I'm sure you'll see his legal standing. We disagree. I believe the NFL / individual teams have the legal right to impose conditions of employment - such as (in this case) - preventing a debilitating disease from entering / spreading throughout the workplace. As long as those conditions are applied evenly i.e. to all employees and not subject to class, race, ethnicity etc, etc, etc. Could their be lawsuits? In today's society? Ha! As was said by someone on TV today - these restrictions or "requirements" have been imposed across society for some time - i.e. you cant send your kid to public school without proof of vaccinations (or specific medical clearance why it cant happen) and currently parents cant send their kids to summer camps unless they've been vaccinated against COVID. I'm sure there's numerous other similar systems being implemented - which is simply the smartest and best way to proceed IMO. The NFL's full of lawyers. I think they've got this covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, squire12 said: If the coaching contract has any language pertaining to " conduct detrimental to team/ organization ", they may be just fine. Also would guess Minnesota HR discussed with the legal staff about the ability to fire Dennison. Yeah there's no way even the lowly vikings would be that stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Old Guy said: And I'm sure they know they are going to have to settle with him. This was a 'risk adverse' calculated guess on their part. It's cheaper to pay off these assistances than it is to potentially have to cancel games and have teams forfeit. Not to mention they have a separate set of rules for the players than the coaches. Players who are not vaccinated do not have the same restrictions/outcomes as coaches. We shall see! You have your thoughts on it and I have mine! Have a good day! I don't what more to tell you. I honestly read employment law for fun (my significant other is literally an employment law attorney). Just do a quick google search, man. Vaccination status is not a protected class and he can legally be fired for it. It's very straightforward. There will be no settlement. I've even found a Minnesota specific source for you: https://www.minnpost.com/health/2021/05/can-minnesota-employers-require-workers-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-will-they/ It is 99.9999999% CERTAIN that the coach does not fall into one of the special categories - or, at least that he has never made the team aware that he does (which he is legally obligated to do if he does). We know this because if he were protected by the law for a disability, Minnesota would not have fired him because they would be exposed to a serious lawsuit. As it stands, we can be very reasonably sure that the Vikings lawyers know the team is protected and will not have to settle. They 100% would not fire someone and work on a settlement battle for years in courts. They would take the much easier/more rational approach of accommodating him NOW (and avoid literally millions in legal fees and bad headlines throughout). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 As an employment law lawyer, I can say that these coaches being "let go" over not getting vaccinated have no ground to stand on. There is no protected class at issue (assuming no disability or religious belief is at issue), and therefore, their employer can terminate them per the terms of their contract, which likely allows the team to terminate the individual at will. Moreover, even if said contract requires "for cause" termination, this situation would qualify. Remember, the NFL, and NFL organizations are no different than any other private employer, which is a lot different than a governmental employer, for example where you have additional constitutional concerns, etc. That doesn't come into play here. Moreover, ex-employees have already tried, and failed, to bring similar law suits against ex-employers for alleged violations of public policy and state law. I've seen a few that didn't make it past a pre-Answer motion to dismiss. Finally, (something we will never know), it would not surprise me if these teams reached some type of severance deal with these coaches (maybe a little compensation, extension of benefits, or some combo) in exchange for a release of claims plus confidentiality. Companies often do this even if there is no legal grounds for challenge, it's simply cleaner all the way around and provides a certain finality to the situation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Employment law clinic going on in here lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Employment law clinic going on in here lol New thread title probably needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I have no **** in this fight, just adding Andrew Brandt's comment on the firing. "There will be lawyers.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, packfanfb said: As an employment law lawyer, I can say that these coaches being "let go" over not getting vaccinated have no ground to stand on. There is no protected class at issue (assuming no disability or religious belief is at issue), and therefore, their employer can terminate them per the terms of their contract, which likely allows the team to terminate the individual at will. Moreover, even if said contract requires "for cause" termination, this situation would qualify. Remember, the NFL, and NFL organizations are no different than any other private employer, which is a lot different than a governmental employer, for example where you have additional constitutional concerns, etc. That doesn't come into play here. Moreover, ex-employees have already tried, and failed, to bring similar law suits against ex-employers for alleged violations of public policy and state law. I've seen a few that didn't make it past a pre-Answer motion to dismiss. Finally, (something we will never know), it would not surprise me if these teams reached some type of severance deal with these coaches (maybe a little compensation, extension of benefits, or some combo) in exchange for a release of claims plus confidentiality. Companies often do this even if there is no legal grounds for challenge, it's simply cleaner all the way around and provides a certain finality to the situation. Coaches are fired all the time..................... and their contracts are paid in full. This man is getting his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, Leader said: We disagree. I believe the NFL / individual teams have the legal right to impose conditions of employment - such as (in this case) - preventing a debilitating disease from entering / spreading throughout the workplace. As long as those conditions are applied evenly i.e. to all employees and not subject to class, race, ethnicity etc, etc, etc. Could their be lawsuits? In today's society? Ha! As was said by someone on TV today - these restrictions or "requirements" have been imposed across society for some time - i.e. you cant send your kid to public school without proof of vaccinations (or specific medical clearance why it cant happen) and currently parents cant send their kids to summer camps unless they've been vaccinated against COVID. I'm sure there's numerous other similar systems being implemented - which is simply the smartest and best way to proceed IMO. The NFL's full of lawyers. I think they've got this covered. The difference, this guy had an employment contract with the team that had none of those stipulations in it. He's going to be paid what he's due on his contract. Interesting link for you but Minnesota public schools allow for kids to enter public schools with 'philosophical differences over vaccinations!' So yes, you can send your child to school without vaccinations. Not to mention these vaccinations do not have full FDA approval. They were approved on an EMERGENCY basis only. This is beyond shaky for the NFL. State Vaccination Exemptions for Children Entering Public Schools - Vaccines - ProCon.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Old Guy said: The difference, this guy had an employment contract with the team that had none of those stipulations in it. He's going to be paid what he's due on his contract. Interesting link for you but Minnesota public schools allow for kids to enter public schools with 'philosophical differences over vaccinations!' So yes, you can send your child to school without vaccinations. Not to mention these vaccinations do not have full FDA approval. They were approved on an EMERGENCY basis only. This is beyond shaky for the NFL. That's fine. On the legal matter, we disagree....which is also fine. The FDA approval thing is a non-factor (IMO) as the primary drugs being administered to COVID sick people showing up at hospitals is also being applied on an emergency basis. So, if its good enough to take when you have to go to the hospital and are on the outs - it should be good enough to take as a means of preventing that trip to the hospital - but clearly that logic doesnt work for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Old Guy said: The difference, this guy had an employment contract with the team that had none of those stipulations in it. He's going to be paid what he's due on his contract. Interesting link for you but Minnesota public schools allow for kids to enter public schools with 'philosophical differences over vaccinations!' So yes, you can send your child to school without vaccinations. Not to mention these vaccinations do not have full FDA approval. They were approved on an EMERGENCY basis only. This is beyond shaky for the NFL. State Vaccination Exemptions for Children Entering Public Schools - Vaccines - ProCon.org It is not shaky whatsoever for the NFL. You seem to be talking about two VERY different things: (1) his contract - which will be honored IF it actually was fully guaranteed (he's a rank and file assistant, however so I really doubt this). (2) legal action - which there is no standing regardless of your stance on vaccines. It literally doesn't matter if it's FDA approved, or illegal in Russia, or anything. It's not protected under US (or Minnesota) law. They could fire him for any non-protected reason. They can fire him for wearing green shorts if they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, incognito_man said: It is not shaky whatsoever for the NFL. You seem to be talking about two VERY different things: (1) his contract - which will be honored IF it actually was fully guaranteed (he's a rank and file assistant, however so I really doubt this). (2) legal action - which there is no standing regardless of your stance on vaccines. It literally doesn't matter if it's FDA approved, or illegal in Russia, or anything. It's not protected under US (or Minnesota) law. They could fire him for any non-protected reason. They can fire him for wearing green shorts if they wanted to. I do not see him being able to sue for more than the contract he signed. Coaches contracts are paid if they are let go. It's not like the players. He will collect his money is my stance. I don't see him getting anything other than that. No matter the reason for his dismissal. Dismissal with his money leave no litigation. Dismissal without paying him his contract will lead to litigation and he will win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 ProFootballTalk - Bruce Arians: Buccaneers will fine unvaccinated players $14,000 for every protocol breach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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