Buc Ball Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, KManX89 said: Dude, he's dead to every team but NE after this move, accept it. No GM wants a con artist who presents a real risk of backing out on them and stabbing them in the back like he did Indy. Parcells left the Bucs hanging in 2002 and he went on to get HC jobs elsewhere. I appreciate that’s a highly regarded HC v someone who represents a risk given his tenure in Denver, but there’s examples of guys backing out of deals and getting HC gigs elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Buc Ball said: Parcells left the Bucs hanging in 2002 and he went on to get HC jobs elsewhere. I appreciate that’s a highly regarded HC v someone who represents a risk given his tenure in Denver, but there’s examples of guys backing out of deals and getting HC gigs elsewhere. Its not about backing out on the colts. If Mcd had just backed out on a handshake deal like Parcells, like BB like so many others it wouldnt be a big deal. We couldnt get the contract details worked out so ultimately the deal fell thru. The difference and what is going to make it so very rough on Mcd is that that wasnt the case at all. They had reached an agreement. Mcd had accepted the offer. He waited until announcements were made and then he renegged. He has demonstrated a willingness to act outside of good faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 8 hours ago, KManX89 said: Dude, he's dead to every team but NE after this move, accept it. No GM wants a con artist who presents a real risk of backing out on them and stabbing them in the back like he did Indy. I really don’t believe this. There are 30 teams McDaniels hasn’t given the finger to. If any one of them decide he is the best option to put together a winning program they will pull the trigger and it doesn’t matter he gave Irsay the finger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said: I really don’t believe this. There are 30 teams McDaniels hasn’t given the finger to. If any one of them decide he is the best option to put together a winning program they will pull the trigger and it doesn’t matter he gave Irsay the finger. Again its not about Irsay or Ballard or the Colts for that matter. Josh Mcdaniels has acted in bad faith. Thats a huge detriment to anyone even wanting to negotiate with him. He can not be trusted. No GM or owner is going to want to deal with that, especially for a guy who was such an abysmal failure the first time around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KManX89 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: Again its not about Irsay or Ballard or the Colts for that matter. Josh Mcdaniels has acted in bad faith. Thats a huge detriment to anyone even wanting to negotiate with him. He can not be trusted. No GM or owner is going to want to deal with that, especially for a guy who was such an abysmal failure the first time around. Edited February 10, 2018 by KManX89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: Again its not about Irsay or Ballard or the Colts for that matter. Josh Mcdaniels has acted in bad faith. Thats a huge detriment to anyone even wanting to negotiate with him. He can not be trusted. No GM or owner is going to want to deal with that, especially for a guy who was such an abysmal failure the first time around. From what I’ve read, McDaniels hadn’t signed his contract with the Colts, so it seems that the Colts got a bit ahead of themselves by announcing the deal. I also wouldn’t go as far to say he acted in bad faith. That would imply that the entire negotiation was either done with a view to McDaniels getting a better deal out of NE, or merely to string the Colts along. I don’t think either is the case. For me, it’s a poor show from McDaniels and indicative of a lack of ability to negotiate and communicate. He was put in a difficult position by NE making a good offer literally at the last minute, but why did he not ask for that before he chose to verbally accept the Colts job? Why did it take him being intercepted by Kraft/BB on his way out the door for him to be offered/ ask for what he wanted? He’s found himself in a difficult situation and chose the unpopular route. He’ll get interviews elsewhere and I’m sure this will be the main topic before he gets another offer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Buc Ball said: From what I’ve read, McDaniels hadn’t signed his contract with the Colts, so it seems that the Colts got a bit ahead of themselves by announcing the deal. I also wouldn’t go as far to say he acted in bad faith. That would imply that the entire negotiation was either done with a view to McDaniels getting a better deal out of NE, or merely to string the Colts along. I don’t think either is the case. For me, it’s a poor show from McDaniels and indicative of a lack of ability to negotiate and communicate. He was put in a difficult position by NE making a good offer literally at the last minute, but why did he not ask for that before he chose to verbally accept the Colts job? Why did it take him being intercepted by Kraft/BB on his way out the door for him to be offered/ ask for what he wanted? He’s found himself in a difficult situation and chose the unpopular route. He’ll get interviews elsewhere and I’m sure this will be the main topic before he gets another offer. It is 100% bad faith bc he agreed to a deal. That is how these things work. First comes the handshake deal bc he is ineligible to negotiate while the Pats are in the playoffs. He has the remainder of the playoffs to back out and you cant say it was bad faith bc negotiation hadnt taken place. Then comes the negotiation, again he has all the way up to an agreement to back out and nobody cares bc he hasnt made a deal. Once he accepts a contract offer if he then backs out for any reason that is now bad faith. Bc the Colts spent their time and energy, his agent spent his time and energy all to come to terms on a contract. You can say the colts jumped the gun, but thats how these things work in the nfl where everything is reported. We recently saw a case where a player first heard he was traded from social media before the team had a chance to contact him. We see reports all the time that player x or coach x has agreed to terms before a contract is signed and executed. Whether Josh Mcdaniels COULD back out is not in question. Until a contract is executed, its not enforceable, the question at hand is, did he act in good faith. His agent says no, as he dropped Mcd as a client immediately bc it could potentially effect his dealings with not only the colts but every other team in the nfl. Conflating this with incidences of coaches and teams not reaching terms is disingenuous at best. This is something we have never seen before, with good reason, bc its pantamount to professional suicide. Josh Mcd is now non ex persona to 31 teams, and id wager to most qualified agents. Nobody wants to be made a fool of, and that includes the people on the outside who witnessed how this went down and will look to prevent it from happening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramxel Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I'm having popcorns ready for the time when the Pats finally dump McDaniels, which we all know will happen. BB is not gonna suddenly give him all the keys... he just doesn't have that kind of personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GongKong Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Personally I don't think Mcd will be a good HC regardless. But he will 100% get other offers. NFL doesn't care about behavior like this. It just doesn't care. This story is much ado about nothing overall. Yeah Mcd is a clown, but by next year or two years from now no one will care, if they think Mcd can help them win games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 hours ago, GongKong said: Personally I don't think Mcd will be a good HC regardless. But he will 100% get other offers. NFL doesn't care about behavior like this. It just doesn't care. This story is much ado about nothing overall. Yeah Mcd is a clown, but by next year or two years from now no one will care, if they think Mcd can help them win games. Owners and gms are businessmen first and foremost. Do you think Bobby Petrino ever gets another shot in the NFL? He left a team hanging high and dry. In a world where coaches get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances all the time, you have not heard his name mentioned once in possible jobs, regardless of his success in college. Why? Bc owners and gms dont trust him. This will not just be forgotten. Again, his own agent called it professional suicide. I think he might have a good idea of what its like to deal with owners and gms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Again its not about Irsay or Ballard or the Colts for that matter. Josh Mcdaniels has acted in bad faith. Thats a huge detriment to anyone even wanting to negotiate with him. He can not be trusted. No GM or owner is going to want to deal with that, especially for a guy who was such an abysmal failure the first time around. Just so you know, Adam Schefter laughed off this notion. Nobody in this league will care in 2 years time, but the Colts. People in business pull this all the time. They accept an offer and their current company counter offers and they back out of the original offer at the last minute. "Acting in bad faith implies" that he never had any interest in accepting the job. He did. At the last minute he got a deal he liked better and he changed his mind. Acting in bad faith is intentional dishonesty or being intentionally misleading. McDaniels was literally going to clean out his office before he got a better deal. That's the difference. Bad faith doesn't mean what you think it means. Bad faith would be like if McDaniels took the job knowing full well he was just using it as leverage against the Pats to see if he could squeeze more out of them, but would never actually leave. Bad faith isn't circumstances changing and backing out for something you view as better. And yeah in a couple years there's going to be some GM whose going to be on a team that is in trouble and needs a coach or they will get fired and the guy whose had top offenses as a coordinator pretty much every single year and whose been to 4 Super Bowls and won 2 and learned cap and roster management under Belichick is going to look very good. The Colts will never take a look at him again. They could never sell it to the fans. Some teams might be more hesitant than others. But it's kind of wishful thinking to believe he won't eventually be called upon. Denver fans thought he would NEVER find another job after what happened their. He was one of the most sought after coaches the last two seasons. The biggest difference now is that McDaniels will likely have to sign a contract before a team fully commits to him. They'll probably also make him perform a year before cleaning out the staff for him and hiring new talent. Edited February 11, 2018 by lancerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: It is 100% bad faith bc he agreed to a deal. That is how these things work. First comes the handshake deal bc he is ineligible to negotiate while the Pats are in the playoffs. He has the remainder of the playoffs to back out and you cant say it was bad faith bc negotiation hadnt taken place. Then comes the negotiation, again he has all the way up to an agreement to back out and nobody cares bc he hasnt made a deal. Once he accepts a contract offer if he then backs out for any reason that is now bad faith. Bc the Colts spent their time and energy, his agent spent his time and energy all to come to terms on a contract. You can say the colts jumped the gun, but thats how these things work in the nfl where everything is reported. We recently saw a case where a player first heard he was traded from social media before the team had a chance to contact him. We see reports all the time that player x or coach x has agreed to terms before a contract is signed and executed. Whether Josh Mcdaniels COULD back out is not in question. Until a contract is executed, its not enforceable, the question at hand is, did he act in good faith. His agent says no, as he dropped Mcd as a client immediately bc it could potentially effect his dealings with not only the colts but every other team in the nfl. Conflating this with incidences of coaches and teams not reaching terms is disingenuous at best. This is something we have never seen before, with good reason, bc its pantamount to professional suicide. Josh Mcd is now non ex persona to 31 teams, and id wager to most qualified agents. Nobody wants to be made a fool of, and that includes the people on the outside who witnessed how this went down and will look to prevent it from happening to them. That’s not bad faith. If he was genuinely interested in the job and was negotiating with a view to taking it, he’s acting in good faith.The Bears got the sense it would be hard for him to leave NE. That suggests he was open and honest in his interview there. It’s therefore reasonable to expect that he had a similar chat with the Colts. The only reason that McDaniels isn’t the HC of the Colts now is because BB/ Kraft made him a counter offer which he chose to accept. If you believe the reports, if he’d walked a different way out of the facility, he’d be the Colts HC right now. How does that indicate bad faith? There’s nothing bad faith about being interested in a role, genuinely pursuing that role, but being conflicted about leaving your current job. People verbally accept job offers all the time and when it comes time to resign, they get a huge counter offer to stay and they back out. There’s nothing bad faith about that, unless your intention was always to use that job opportunity to improve your circumstances in your current job. Verbal acceptances literally mean nothing because agents can get pushy or try to force things when you aren’t ready to provide a definitive. If the Colts got any sense that McDaniels would struggle to move on from NE (like the Bears did), they shouldn’t have announced it until he’d signed his deal. If you’ve ever dealt with agency recruiters, you probably know exactly what I’m talking about. His agent is also acting in self interest since another one of his clients is the Colts GM. He was caught in the middle and forced to pick a side. Unsurprisingly, he chose the path of least resistance. Besides, the agent claiming he acted in bad faith could just be using that as an excuse for failing to convince his client to take the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GongKong Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Owners and gms are businessmen first and foremost. Do you think Bobby Petrino ever gets another shot in the NFL? He left a team hanging high and dry. In a world where coaches get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances all the time, you have not heard his name mentioned once in possible jobs, regardless of his success in college. Why? Bc owners and gms dont trust him. This will not just be forgotten. Again, his own agent called it professional suicide. I think he might have a good idea of what its like to deal with owners and gms. Petrino never should have had the first shot. No one thought that was a good idea. Most never been around NFL college coaches fail in nfl. Different game, different way of getting talent on team. Very very few ever succeed even slightly. I get it. You think all will black ball him. I don't think it will matter. In the nfl guys kill people, beat their mothers, knock out their wives, run people over in cars, rape women, get arrested drunk belligerent and completely naked at mcdonalds at 3am, etc. And have jobs. And if not for media really would always have jobs. We all know they don't care. We want then to care. If Tom Brady was a serial killer, but not yet caught, but internally the nfl people knew about it, and he was a FA, guess what 32 offers for his services. Aaron Hernandez was a known gangster and known to smoke dust. He killed people in college in broad daylight. His coach knew and helped brush it under the table. They won championships. No one outside really heard this story until he blew away more people publicly. Let that sink in. He dropped in draft but still was drafted and signed a big contract extension even though all involved knew he shot at min two people dead at a street light in broad daylight previously. So I doubt mcd, being a ****, will really effect him 2 years from now. It just doesn't matter. Is he a good HC that will help you win? Do you need a hc? Yeah he will get offers for sure. Sorry it crushes your world view. I too would like it more if the league or anyone in it cared about any level of decorum or civil behavior. Would be nice. Just they don't and won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Shady just like the whole NE organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Bobby816 said: Shady just like the whole NE organization. Because they do what every business in the world has ever done and gave an exiting employee a counter offer? Some of you need to get a real grip and a lesson in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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