2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[Arthur Penske]

1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

 

Who is our slot at the moment? Rollins? Pipkens?  Tramon hasn't shown any slot ability after leaving GB.  King is not a slot and wouldn't be using his skills in the most valuable position there.

What a joke.

Pretty sure he played a good deal outside in AZ.

[skibrett15]

Just now, ArthurPensky said:

Pretty sure he played a good deal outside in AZ.

Right.  Tramon is an outside corner who needs a lot of help over the top.

 

When he was our no. 1 he would sometimes cover people in the slot.

[Arthur Penske]

1 minute ago, pollino14 said:

About Randall; I just wish he were traded for draft picks or at least a starter. Trading for a backup QB is so underwhelming. I think we could’ve gotten more value.

They did... Traded up to the first pick of the 4th and 5th rounds. While I would have preferred a 3rd or something straight up, moving up in those rounds isn't insignificant. 

[vegas492]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

he's gonna play slot.  That's where he's the best fit.  It's where he had success here, and it's where the value meets the rubber of the road with his skill set.

If you look at Randall as a prospect, he's a cheap honey badger who isn't as strong of a tackler.

 

Who is our slot at the moment? Rollins? Pipkens?  Tramon hasn't shown any slot ability after leaving GB.  King is not a slot and wouldn't be using his skills in the most valuable position there.

What a joke.

Guessing Rollins has to be considered there.

But...there are a lot of slot guys in the draft.  Young corners can come in and play well right away.  Happens every year.  Heck, it happened with both Randall and Rollins when they were rookies.

Just hold out a little hope for the draft.....

[pollino14]

4 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said:

They did... Traded up to the first pick of the 4th and 5th rounds. While I would have preferred a 3rd or something straight up, moving up in those rounds isn't insignificant. 

You know that’s what I meant. Honestly hate when I have to spell everything out.

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said:

 

Minkah

Boy, if GB could snag him, even if it mean dealing one or both of those Randall picks, then the trade was worth it.  

[Packerraymond]

Our slot isn't on the roster. Mac pretty much spilled the beans that there's going to be quite a few more DBs added to this team.

[Norm]

24 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Our slot isn't on the roster. Mac pretty much spilled the beans that there's going to be quite a few more DBs added to this team.

So Mac is the GM. I finally figured it out haha

[Norm]

55 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

About Randall; I just wish he were traded for draft picks or at least a starter. Trading for a backup QB is so underwhelming. I think we could’ve gotten more value.

Even a rotational player I've said would have been better. A bust at a position that might play without an injury to Aaron. That just killed it for me. Somehow Kizer will win a SB to make me look stupid for having an extreme opinion though, it always happens.

[Chili]

The way I see it is this:

TT made the right choice drafting Randall. He identified talent and then drafted him. He was BPA and TT did his job. We also had a need at corner as we lost both Tramon Williams and Davon House. The fact that Randall was so versatile was just an added bonus. It filled a need at corner, added depth and allowed us to plan with our impending FA defensive backs such as Hayward and Hyde. I believe this was originally the plan.

In recent years hybrid players have been increasingly drafted in the 1st round such as Bucannon, Ramsey, Neal, Lee, Shaq Thompson, Shazier etc. With the nickle defence now becoming the new base defence in the NFL it should come as no surprise that we drafted another "safety" despite the fact that we already had HaHa and Burnett. As nickle defences often uses 3 safeties it make sense to draft Randall to be our 3rd safety but with the bonus ability to play outside corner when needed.

Capers wanted versatile players to be able to play the nickle defence and in that sense TT did his job drafting Randall. I think Capers mistake was treating Randall as a corner from the very get go when he should've been spending time learning with the safety group but that would've meant him not getting on the field as much early on in his career.

In 2015 we had a log jam. HaHa at Free safety, Burnett at hybrid S/LB, Hyde at hybrid S/Slot, Shields at corner leaving the other corner spot open for either Hayward or Randall. Looking at that group TT did a bloody fantastic job of creating that group of talented players but Capers just couldn't get the performances he wanted out of them. That defence was underperforming for years. That's Capers fault.

Randall performed well enough in his rookie season which led to us being comfortable letting Hayward go. the following year after that we were comfortable letting Hyde go because that was the plan all along. The fact that both players went on to thrive on other teams was just a combination of poor talent identification, the numbers game in certain positions and just plain old bad luck.

The bad luck was Shields injury. We didn't react adequetly enough to fix this problem. It also threw the wretch in the plan for Randall to eventually move to the position he was earmarked for. If we picked up an experienced cornerback off the street Randall would've played the rest of the 2016 season at S/Slot. That blame has to fall on TT.

Again TT compounded on his mistake by not using all avenues to bring in an experienced corner to pair him with newly drafted King. Bringing House back simply just wasn't good enough and the depth was proven to be incompetent after the Atlanta drubbing in the playoffs. TT simply didn't do enough. Sure enough injuries hit the position group again, Randall again was forced to play corner and our backups were again proven to be incompetent.

Then you have to consider the fact that Randall's attitude rubbed lots of people the wrong way, leaving the game at half time was bad, teammates going as far as asking for him to be cut, McCarthy not being a fan of the dude didn't help either. So part of the blame has to fall on Randall too not just TT, McCarthy and Capers. When you piss off the head coach...you're not gonna last long with that organisation.

So it was a cumulation of factors that lead to us trading Randall away. If Randall's attitude was better I bet he would still be with us now as our S/Slot Corner with 2nd year King on the outside and Tramon/Draft pick on the other. Maybe Pettine was willing to give Randall a clean slate but once you piss off the head coach you're not here for long.

At the moment Tramon has essentially replaced House. We still have a need at S/Slot, Brice probably will replace Burnett and use his hard hitting style of play at S/LB. We still need to replace some of our depth players as they have proven not to be good enough over the last couple of seasons. We still need to draft a starting corner opposite King. Still got a lot of work to do. I honestly think Revis could be an ideal filler for S/Slot- add some experience and stability as well as providing cover on the outside as needed. He would essentially be an older version of Randall for us. It would also take the pressure off us in having to draft someone to replace Randall.

The point of all this is that EVERYONE is to blame. The organisational shakeup in both the front office and coaching staff was probably what the doctor has ordered.

[pollino14]

4 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Even a rotational player I've said would have been better. A bust at a position that might play without an injury to Aaron. That just killed it for me. Somehow Kizer will win a SB to make me look stupid for having an extreme opinion though, it always happens.

I’m a jinx too. I bet I can make the Pack go undefeated by betting on them every week.

 

I really just think we’re putting too much value on a backup QB, Rodgers goes down, seasons done. I’d rather sign a vet instead of go through this trouble 

[Leader]

37 minutes ago, Chili said:

TT made the right choice drafting Randall. He identified talent and then drafted him. He was BPA and TT did his job. We also had a need at corner as we lost both Tramon Williams and Davon House. The fact that Randall was so versatile was just an added bonus. It filled a need at corner, added depth and allowed us to plan with our impending FA defensive backs such as Hayward and Hyde. I believe this was originally the plan.

Damarious Randall was the first Safety selected in the 2015 draft. First round - 30th selection. The second Safety (Landon Collins) was taken with the first selection of the Second round by the New York Giants. To my knowledge, Landon Collins wasnt selected (nor was he designated) to play outside boundary CB. Randall was - which was a mistake in my view. His college coaching staff (ASU)  saw his talents, capabilities and abilities as a Safety. His future coaching staff in CLE (apparently) see him in a similar way and will designate him to play Safety. The Green Bay coaching staff has now publicly acknowledged (for the first time that I'm aware of) that he was playing out of position his entire time with the team - and should do well with CLE - as a Safety. At the time of the 2015 draft we had an acute need at the CB position. We drafted a Safety who's coverage skills while a GBP never elevated to a true outside boundary CB - hence, CLE is (apparently) moving him back to Safety.

 

[ChaRisMa]

15 minutes ago, Leader said:

Damarious Randall was the first Safety selected in the 2015 draft. First round - 30th selection. The second Safety (Landon Collins) was taken with the first selection of the Second round by the New York Giants. To my knowledge, Landon Collins wasnt selected (nor was he designated) to play outside boundary CB. Randall was - which was a mistake in my view. His college coaching staff (ASU)  saw his talents, capabilities and abilities as a Safety. His future coaching staff in CLE (apparently) see him in a similar way and will designate him to play Safety. The Green Bay coaching staff has now publicly acknowledged (for the first time that I'm aware of) that he was playing out of position his entire time with the team - and should do well - as a Safety. At the time of the 2015 draft we had an acute need at the CB position. We drafted a Safety who's coverage skills while a GBP never elevated to a true outside boundary CB - hence, CLE is (apparently) moving him back to Safety.

 

Yeah he played JUCO CB. And he should still be there. He doesn’t have the tackling or physicality of a S. Ball skills are very good but he’s gonna struggle getting dirty.

[Leader]

15 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Yeah he played JUCO CB. And he should still be there. He doesn’t have the tackling or physicality of a S. Ball skills are very good but he’s gonna struggle getting dirty.

Yes and dare I suggest that the demands at the JUCO level are a distant land from those of top college programs (?) and a long ago, forgotten dream from the demands in the NFL?

Again - the very next coaching staff - beyond his JUCO days - moved him to Safety. Do you think they may have assessed CB wasnt his strong suit? Just maybe?

His future coaching staff is moving him to Safety.

It doesnt appear any of these coaching staffs gave (or are giving) much credence to his exploits and achievements at the JUCO level.

His most recent coaching staff has now acknowledged they were playing him out of position and that he should do well - as a Safety.

The GBPs learned the hard way his JUCO CB coverage skills didnt translate into the NFL.

[TheBitzMan]

9 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Yeah he played JUCO CB. And he should still be there. He doesn’t have the tackling or physicality of a S. Ball skills are very good but he’s gonna struggle getting dirty.

Take PFF at what you will but they had Randall as the 3rd rank CB run defender last year...He may not be as physical as you would want, he has shied away from contact in the past, but this guy has elite ball skills and will be just fine playing center field IMO.