Mike Pettine Defense

[chillparsi1]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Very much this.  And I'd argue the majority of the defenses in the league want their OLBs to be on those one-on-one matchups.  A my guy is going to beat your guy mentality.  But I'd argue the Packers' D under Pettine prioritizes gap responsibility, interior pass rush, and a surprise blitzer.

As a non-X's & O's guy I'm curious then - with next years draft do you see a pass-rush OLB specialist as the top priority? Or if there's a 3-4 DE with pass rush ability, is that worth more to you?

To try and ground what I realize is a very poorly phrased question in something - would you rather have a Dee Ford or Chris Jones?

[AlexGreen#20]

22 minutes ago, chillparsi1 said:

As a non-X's & O's guy I'm curious then - with next years draft do you see a pass-rush OLB specialist as the top priority? Or if there's a 3-4 DE with pass rush ability, is that worth more to you?

To try and ground what I realize is a very poorly phrased question in something - would you rather have a Dee Ford or Chris Jones?

Not CWood, but a lot will likely depend on how the rest of the season and free agency goes.

If Wilkerson gets resigned and the young DL show something, you can probably consider going after one of the edge guys.

If you're not loving your top 3, you almost have to go with the DL. Jones is also sorta the guy you'd be looking for physically, long and quick. Might be time to look into trading Daniels as well. Man's a good player, but he's fighting this thing for all he's worth. He was better off in Capers' scheme and lord knows that wasn't a natural home for him. 

I also don't think you're going to be looking at a guy like Dee Ford at 6'2 250. Too short and too light. I think you're more likely going to be looking for bigger edge guys, though depending on how he's feeling about Clay/Fackrell, he may want to get one locked in speed guy. 

[chillparsi1]

13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not CWood, but a lot will likely depend on how the rest of the season and free agency goes.

If Wilkerson gets resigned and the young DL show something, you can probably consider going after one of the edge guys.

If you're not loving your top 3, you almost have to go with the DL. Jones is also sorta the guy you'd be looking for physically, long and quick. Might be time to look into trading Daniels as well. Man's a good player, but he's fighting this thing for all he's worth. He was better off in Capers' scheme and lord knows that wasn't a natural home for him. 

I also don't think you're going to be looking at a guy like Dee Ford at 6'2 250. Too short and too light. I think you're more likely going to be looking for bigger edge guys, though depending on how he's feeling about Clay/Fackrell, he may want to get one locked in speed guy. 

You won't hear me complain about drafting a DL very much, always pro trenches. Dee Ford was thrown out as just an example btw, but I understand your point. That said, even if we do resign Wilkerson...he's coming off an injury and a few down years, and Daniels as you said is starting to age - sounds like all the more reason to take the DL if they're available. Only problem is they're probably less likely to help your pass rush immediately.

[hoekd0250]

I feel we could be better off with a 4-3 sam linebacker who can drop into coverage and stunt on blitzes, while holding his gap in the run game. Mathews and Perry get to far upfield and don't stay square enough for them to be effective in this scheme.

Example would be Kyle Van Nooy, or Leighton Vander Esch, Anthony Barr type linebacker.

[CWood21]

45 minutes ago, chillparsi1 said:

As a non-X's & O's guy I'm curious then - with next years draft do you see a pass-rush OLB specialist as the top priority? Or if there's a 3-4 DE with pass rush ability, is that worth more to you?

To try and ground what I realize is a very poorly phrased question in something - would you rather have a Dee Ford or Chris Jones?

I think a Chris Jones-like player would have a bigger impact on what the Pettine wants to do defensively.  Don't get me wrong, I think Pettine would use a better pass rusher but in terms of what he wants defensively the DL are a bigger part of his gameplan.  We've seen him content going with a 3-3-5 look to get that extra DB on the field.  Like AG#20 said, I don't think Dee Ford is the frame you're looking at.  I think you're looking at someone with a bigger frame.  Think Josh Allen, Jaylon Ferguson, etc.  Not sure guys like Jalachi Polite Brian Burns, etc. are the mold that Pettine wants.

[Shanedorf]

FROM Ben Fennell‏

#Packers  3rd Down Defense...

 

Conversions: 36.6% (7th)

Completions: 55.1% (6th)

Y/A: 5.90 (4th)

Sacks: 15 (2nd)

QB Rating: 69.4 (4th)

[Stevein2012]

8 hours ago, eyecatcher said:

How do you decide they aren’t playing well?  Because they don’t have double digit sacks?  They must be doing something right in order for the rest of the team to get as many sacks as they’ve had. The edge rush isn’t what we are used to in Capers 3-4 defense. Yet the defense is so much better than Capers defense. 

Maybe we could ask what are they doing well?  Few sacks but also little pressure or disruption while we also get gashed off the edge in the run game.  That's putting aside the fact that our investment in them is as impact players.  They have both had moments but I would be really surprised if on the season as a whole Pettine is getting what he expected out of them.

[vegas492]

15 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

It hurts your team if players you've invested a significant portion of your limited cap space into aren't playing well and/or are injured, what's not to understand?  I don't know about others but I'm not upset at all about how much a player gets paid, I just think it's fair to point out if a player isn't playing well in regards to their salary because it hurts the team more than if a low salary player isn't playing well.  It doesn't mean Gute is stupid for having them on the roster, he may not have had many other options or not been able to forsee a players decline etc... but it's worth discussing whether those players have been worth the investment or would be worth a future investment or whatnot.

The issue is the players performance but certain players just hurt the team more than others when they underperform.

Again...if the team is under the salary cap, who really cares?  

Guys get paid peanuts (comparatively speaking) on their rookie deals.  They outplay the value of the contract.  Then they get paid big money and maybe they don't perform as well.  In the end, it evens out.

Absolutely no one argued against Perry when he signed his deal.  Or Matthews.  I remember guys on here saying GB was able to get the best pass rusher in free agency when Perry signed.  Can't say that they were wrong at the time. 

I get the whole "crystal ball" argument, but again, let's say you had one and you released both of those guys.  What would be different?  Maybe you landed the big name and big dollar corner in free agency?  Who in 2-3 years would probably be considered "overpaid" based on his play and contract?  And...if the crystal ball was right, you go into the season with Fackrell and Gilbert as your EDGE guys.

The issue is the players performance but certain players just hurt the team more than others when they underperform.---That's true for anyone on the roster, not just the highly paid guys, or "certain players".   About the only guy who can really hurt the team with an underperformance is the QB...and that is true whether he is the highest paid guy on the team, or on a rookie deal.  QB's just hold that much weight in regards to success or failure.

  

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Guys get paid peanuts (comparatively speaking) on their rookie deals.  They outplay the value of the contract.  Then they get paid big money and maybe they don't perform as well.  In the end, it evens out.

Thats a good point.

Puts emphasis on targeting those players that do outperform their rookie deals and rewarding them with beneficial contracts - which remain workable within a teams CAP structure.

[vegas492]

8 minutes ago, Leader said:

Thats a good point.

Puts emphasis on targeting those players that do outperform their rookie deals and rewarding them with beneficial contracts - which remain workable within a teams CAP structure.

Thank you.

And...as it relates to Perry....  I think that everyone had a kind of "buyer beware" feeling about him.  Often injured.  But, the man got sacks and he tended to get sacks at big times.  His second contract year was a very good one for him and I think many of us were still in "buyer beware" mode about him, but thought that the deal was fine...especially if he had turned the injury corner.

Which he hasn't yet.  Can't help but wonder, though, if his wheel was right, he would be a force in this scheme.

[eyecatcher]

4 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Again...if the team is under the salary cap, who really cares?  

Guys get paid peanuts (comparatively speaking) on their rookie deals.  They outplay the value of the contract.  Then they get paid big money and maybe they don't perform as well.  In the end, it evens out.

Absolutely no one argued against Perry when he signed his deal.  Or Matthews.  I remember guys on here saying GB was able to get the best pass rusher in free agency when Perry signed.  Can't say that they were wrong at the time. 

I get the whole "crystal ball" argument, but again, let's say you had one and you released both of those guys.  What would be different?  Maybe you landed the big name and big dollar corner in free agency?  Who in 2-3 years would probably be considered "overpaid" based on his play and contract?  And...if the crystal ball was right, you go into the season with Fackrell and Gilbert as your EDGE guys.

The issue is the players performance but certain players just hurt the team more than others when they underperform.---That's true for anyone on the roster, not just the highly paid guys, or "certain players".   About the only guy who can really hurt the team with an underperformance is the QB...and that is true whether he is the highest paid guy on the team, or on a rookie deal.  QB's just hold that much weight in regards to success or failure.

  

I'd like this with every like I had if they'd let me.  Very well put.

[Stevein2012]

9 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Thank you.

And...as it relates to Perry....  I think that everyone had a kind of "buyer beware" feeling about him.  Often injured.  But, the man got sacks and he tended to get sacks at big times.  His second contract year was a very good one for him and I think many of us were still in "buyer beware" mode about him, but thought that the deal was fine...especially if he had turned the injury corner.

Which he hasn't yet.  Can't help but wonder, though, if his wheel was right, he would be a force in this scheme.

I don't think Perry was a bad signing but he's been a bad investment.  The money spent on Perry, Matthews (last couple seasons), Cobb etc... may or may not have been spent better on someone else but it's just a fact it's not currently money well spent and too many players like that adding up certainly hurts a teams chance at being competitive.  If we weren't paying Matthews and Cobb this year we may have signed another player who would perform better or we'd have 20m extra to spend next season, it's a loss of opportunity. 

Similar to the non signings of guys like Peppers, Hayward and Cobb, they weren't necessarily bad decisions at the time but it's still true and fair to point out that not signing those guys or even trying to sign them was a bad move.

[skibrett15]

Suh was the guy you *wished* they signed knowing what we know now about both him and Pettine's scheme

[Cadmus]

22 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

FROM Ben Fennell‏

#Packers  3rd Down Defense...

 

Conversions: 36.6% (7th)

Completions: 55.1% (6th)

Y/A: 5.90 (4th)

Sacks: 15 (2nd)

QB Rating: 69.4 (4th)

Now we just need to learn to stop them on 1st and 2nd down. 

[Shanedorf]

11 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Now we just need to learn to stop them on 1st and 2nd down. 

I didn't look at those stats, but in the 1st and 2nd QUARTERS, GB has been abysmal so far this season

1st quarter scoring allowed: GB is number 32 in the league
2nd quarter scoring allowed: GB was at number 19 in the league