2019 Draft Talk

[BWG VIKE]

We should trade our 1st rd for a 1st rd next year and start piling up ammo for a QB next year. Then draft best IOL available in 2nd rd and try to hit on a middle of the pack free agent OG

[vikestyle]

5 minutes ago, BWG VIKE said:

We should trade our 1st rd for a 1st rd next year and start piling up ammo for a QB next year. Then draft best IOL available in 2nd rd and try to hit on a middle of the pack free agent OG

I actually don't hate that plan, but Spielman and Zimmer need to win this year or they will most likely be fired so they can't really do that.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

Elflein was rd 3, the Vikings traded up for him the year that they didn’t have a 1st round pick.

Bryan O’Neill was a 2nd round pick.

consecutive years spending top 70 picks on OL... Sure seems like they have been using high draft capital on OL to me.

Cody Whitehair is the only OL that the Vikings had a realistic chance at that I think they missed on considering the other players that they have taken. Cody Whitehair is not putting this team in the playoffs.

So....what's your solution to improving line play that is keeping the Vikings from being a more consistent contender?  I think that the Vikings need to have a holistic approach to the problem...better players...better scheme...better coaching.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, vikestyle said:

Last year the defense had a swagger. They were flying around, having fun, and playing off each other. I didn't get that same feeling this year. Who is out there that you guys have watched on the defensive side of the football that could give them some swagger and emotion back?

I haven't gotten into film yet as I will start getting into that after the national championship, but one guy I saw some this year that I thought would fit right in if Barr walked is Devin White. Any other guys you can think of?

I think the defense's needs are to keep the nucleus of players we currently have...add some lower half draft choices (as defense is pretty deep in this draft)...but the main thing is to have coaching that will spark that flying around, having fun philosophy!  I think the defense was emotionally affected by Griffens' issues.  He's the guy that was that emotional motor...he seemed to have less rev in his motor when he returned...I suspect that the meds he may be on are possibly the cause.  In short, having a coach that will let the dogs off the leash is the key.  Zimmer would be doing his defense a favor by giving up DC duties.

[JDBrocks]

35 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

So....what's your solution to improving line play that is keeping the Vikings from being a more consistent contender?  I think that the Vikings need to have a holistic approach to the problem...better players...better scheme...better coaching.

I think that the draft strategy has been sound - take the best player available (for the most part). I hope the draft pans out that they are able to grab a great OL prospect. 

I think that they need to fill the giant hole that Tony Sparano left when he passed away. I have no idea what they have done from a scouting standpoint, but I still have hope for Elflein and O’Neill was pretty darn good this year.

While I think that the OL needs to be improved, I reject the premise that if you fix the OL, the Vikings are instantly contending *this year*. That is a short sighted and easy argument to make because it is an obvious weakness, but a lot of other things went wrong this year. Many of them either out of the team’s control or fluky.

In my opinion the draft is about adding the most young talent that you can, regardless of position. That is how you sustain success. How the team uses and develops that talent is another matter.

[gopherwrestler]

1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said:

So....what's your solution to improving line play that is keeping the Vikings from being a more consistent contender?  I think that the Vikings need to have a holistic approach to the problem...better players...better scheme...better coaching.

Better scheme, well that ones tough. Really the ZBS scheme works other places. Like everyone that has a good line right now. 

Players, I think some of the “talent” that has came through here is good enough to be a lot better than we have achieved. But I do agree, If they were even more talented they would be better, but you can say this with any position. It’s kind of like saying if you paired Julio Jones & Deondre Hopkins together at the WR position they would be better than Thielen & Diggs. 

Now coaching, this is big. Sparano and Shurmur made the line “work” last year. 

We couldn’t even hide our flaws this year. Elfien played worse, decision to move Remmers to RG, Rieff didn’t even play up to his level.

[TENINCH]

15 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

Better scheme, well that ones tough. Really the ZBS scheme works other places. Like everyone that has a good line right now. 

Players, I think some of the “talent” that has came through here is good enough to be a lot better than we have achieved. But I do agree, If they were even more talented they would be better, but you can say this with any position. It’s kind of like saying if you paired Julio Jones & Deondre Hopkins together at the WR position they would be better than Thielen & Diggs. 

Now coaching, this is big. Sparano and Shurmur made the line “work” last year. 

We couldn’t even hide our flaws this year. Elfien played worse, decision to move Remmers to RG, Rieff didn’t even play up to his level.

Reiff played well enough imo. Elflien will get better because he won't be spending the offseason rehabbing. O'Neil is another one that I think will benefit from an offseason of being able to work out. The guards imo are what is most important to upgrade. Every time there was a big run or nice receptions that got call back it was because our guards were holding or putting their hands into the defenders face.

[Ozzy]

22 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

Reiff played well enough imo. Elflien will get better because he won't be spending the offseason rehabbing. O'Neil is another one that I think will benefit from an offseason of being able to work out. The guards imo are what is most important to upgrade. Every time there was a big run or nice receptions that got call back it was because our guards were holding or putting their hands into the defenders face.

I agree the guards have to go, especially Remmers.  I said already in another thread Remmers got a little under $4 million this year and is scheduled to get $5.6, $6 and $6.5 the next three years.  No clue how we get out of that, especially when $10 million of the $30 million contract is guaranteed.  

 

Remmers is not good and the move to guard did not improve his play at all.  Elflien I think got worse this year compared to last but yeah one would assume he gets better.  The passing of Tony Sparano obviously meant a ton, that OL played way better last year than this season and him not being there probably had a lot to do with it potentially.

 

Trenton Brown on New England, I would ideally give all the money we give Remmers to him.  That kid can play and has had a great year, makes them losing Solder in free agency a non issue, and sure he does not have a ton of experience but has shown well for that team and who knows if the Patriots would pay up for him as a free agent.

[gopherwrestler]

14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I agree the guards have to go, especially Remmers.  I said already in another thread Remmers got a little under $4 million this year and is scheduled to get $5.6, $6 and $6.5 the next three years.  No clue how we get out of that, especially when $10 million of the $30 million contract is guaranteed.  

$6.35M

$6.7M

$7.25M

these are the next 3 years

via https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/mike-remmers-10110/

 

 

cut him:

$6.35M - $1.8M dead cap = $4.55M cap saving 2019

$6.7M - $1.2M dead cap = $5.5M cap savings 2020

$7.25M - $.6M dead cap = $6.65M cap savings 2021

 

3 year cap Savings = $16.7M

3 year total dead cap = $3.6M 

 

pretty easy cut to be honest, saving $16.7M for a player that should be on the bench is worth it. I can handle taking the $1.8M dead cap next year.

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

$6.35M

$6.7M

$7.25M

these are the next 3 years

via https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/mike-remmers-10110/

 

 

cut him:

$6.35M - $1.8M dead cap = $4.55M cap saving 2019

$6.7M - $1.2M dead cap = $5.5M cap savings 2020

$7.25M - $.6M dead cap = $6.65M cap savings 2021

 

3 year cap Savings = $16.7M

3 year total dead cap = $3.6M 

 

pretty easy cut to be honest, saving $16.7M for a player that should be on the bench is worth it. I can handle taking the $1.8M dead cap next year.

I never really understood the dead cap thing or contracts in general, I try to stick to just actual prospects.  Thanks for the layout of it all, but if it is that easy then there is no way on earth they should not cut Mike Remmers.  With that being said not sure even Riley Reiff should not be cut and he gets paid way more than Remmers does.  But I suppose we keep Reiff because he is the better of the two, but even he is not worth what he is getting paid $9-$11 million a year.  

And sadly Cousins is to blame also with his inability to throw well on the run, escape the pocket and make plays or simply check the freaking ball down and take the simple completion  He pushes and forces things a lot at times, it was mostly the offensive lines fault for the hits he took but some were on Cousins as well.

[gopherwrestler]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

I never really understood the dead cap thing or contracts in general, I try to stick to just actual prospects.  Thanks for the layout of it all, but if it is that easy then there is no way on earth they should not cut Mike Remmers.  With that being said not sure even Riley Reiff should not be cut and he gets paid way more than Remmers does.  But I suppose we keep Reiff because he is the better of the two, but even he is not worth what he is getting paid $9-$11 million a year.  

And sadly Cousins is to blame also with his inability to throw well on the run, escape the pocket and make plays or simply check the freaking ball down and take the simple completion  He pushes and forces things a lot at times, it was mostly the offensive lines fault for the hits he took but some were on Cousins as well.

Reiffs contract is tough to cut, you would be eating a lot of salary cap, and what you gain from it you probably wouldn’t be able to find his talent on the line at that price.

Can restructure if we wanted to, lower his cap hit and add a year to the contract, but that doesn’t solve a lot of issues

[Cearbhall]

57 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

Reiffs contract is tough to cut, you would be eating a lot of salary cap, and what you gain from it you probably wouldn’t be able to find his talent on the line at that price.

Can restructure if we wanted to, lower his cap hit and add a year to the contract, but that doesn’t solve a lot of issues

Reiff is good enough to keep around while the team finds a replacement. Finding his replacement on a rookie contract this year would be ideal. That gives the team a year to gauge what they have and move on from Reiff after the season. Even considering dead cap the team would save plenty money by starting a guy on a rookie contract next year over Reilly Reiff. It wouldn't be hard to move on from him at all in that scenario. Moving on form him for another veteran contract wouldn't be palatable this year IMO.

[gopherwrestler]

4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Reiff is good enough to keep around while the team finds a replacement. Finding his replacement on a rookie contract this year would be ideal. That gives the team a year to gauge what they have and move on from Reiff after the season. Even considering dead cap the team would save plenty money by starting a guy on a rookie contract next year over Reilly Reiff. It wouldn't be hard to move on from him at all in that scenario. Moving on form him for another veteran contract wouldn't be palatable this year IMO.

No I understand that, but I’m just saying cutting him this year would save $5M and create another hole. 

You cut him, it doesn’t make any sense this year, $5M veteran LT isn’t going to have the talent to immediately replace him even if he would be benched for a rookie. 

Dropping him creates just another hole to fix on this line, it’s not worth it this year

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TENINCH said:

Reiff played well enough imo. Elflien will get better because he won't be spending the offseason rehabbing. O'Neil is another one that I think will benefit from an offseason of being able to work out. The guards imo are what is most important to upgrade. Every time there was a big run or nice receptions that got call back it was because our guards were holding or putting their hands into the defenders face.

Really...the only point to keeping Reiff around is because his contract  doesn't save us anything.  He is a very, very mediocre tackle...which, unfortunately, makes him the second best lineman we have.

[TENINCH]

Just now, Virginia Viking said:

Really...the only point to keeping Reiff around is because his contract  doesn't save us anything.  He is a very, very mediocre tackle...which, unfortunately, makes him the second best lineman we have.

There aren't many non mediocre tackles in the NFL. He does the job and make mistakes against some but he's not one I'm in an immediate need to replace.