2018 Draft Eligible QB Thread

[MSURacerDT55]

8 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Have to give Lamar Jackson for not quitting on his team, and playing in this bowl game against the Bulldogs. Has enough self-awareness to realize he had help along the way to make him a future pro QB. Also kudos to the Ohio State defensive lineman who had a great Cotton Bowl, then declared for the draft. That's how you do it. 

Not sure this is the thread to congrat guys who played in the bowl game. But as a tOSU fan, I have zero issue with Ward deciding not to play and any other prospect who decides not to play. This is not the 60's, there is a big difference between first round money and slipping to the 4th round because of an injury (Ask Jaylon Smith and Jake Butt) 

[Rich7sena]

42 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

To be fair, there's a huge difference between what they should be evaluated as and where they'll go.  You'll have to accept more flaws with QB prospects than you would with a non-QB prospect.  Positional value plays a HUGE role into the draft selection.  I mean, does anyone truly believe that Patrick Mahomes was one of the top 10 prospects in last year's draft?

But you can't divorce the position from the evaluation. The best pass rusher in the league isn't as valuable as the 10th best quarterback. And like you said, quarterback does require (in most cases) more projections than other positions. Evaluating quarterback is a lot of understanding what can be improved and what can't

[CWood21]

19 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

But you can't divorce the position from the evaluation. The best pass rusher in the league isn't as valuable as the 10th best quarterback. And like you said, quarterback does require (in most cases) more projections than other positions. Evaluating quarterback is a lot of understanding what can be improved and what can't

That almost goes without saying.  You look at the tools that the player displays, and the ones that he doesn't currently show.  If you believe you can fix those issues, you're willing to take a chance on him.  If you don't believe that he's capable of doing so, you pass on him.

[winitall]

Lamar Jackson had a brutal day today. The throw before the Hail Mary is a throw a QB has to make. Had a guy running wide open downfield that would give them the ball at about the 20 with 6 seconds left. Instead he misses the guy pretty badly and they have to settle for chucking up a prayer from their own 40. 

[jetskid007]

4 hours ago, CalhounLambeau said:

That's a good example. Winston was a redshirt sophomore. Dealt with the sophomore re-set and lost his go-to bail-out big guy in Kelvin Benjamin. Only real difference between the two is that Winston came in with more experience, a more advanced understanding of his position and probably picks things up faster than Darnold. 

Yup, but just figured good comparison in terms of expectation and situation. Also even similar mechanical flaw (the infamous “hitch”), although Darnold’s will be more difficult to correct imo. 

[barnaby8787]

Lamar's a third rounder to me.  Someone will take him, think they can get a QB out of him, before realizing his path in the NFL is likely WR.

[jetskid007]

2 hours ago, barnaby8787 said:

Lamar's a third rounder to me.  Someone will take him, think they can get a QB out of him, before realizing his path in the NFL is likely WR.

He can be a much, much, much more dynamic version of Brad Smith (one of my all time favorite Jets) if he’s open to it. So lethal

[incognito_man]

7 hours ago, barnaby8787 said:

Lamar's a third rounder to me.  Someone will take him, think they can get a QB out of him, before realizing his path in the NFL is likely WR.

i watched the louisville game today and he looks awful. Hopefully someone takes him top 10.

[barnaby8787]

13 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

He can be a much, much, much more dynamic version of Brad Smith (one of my all time favorite Jets) if he’s open to it. So lethal

Definitely.  Terrelle Pryor comes to mind as well.

[barnaby8787]

Just going on comps, anyone else see a more athletic Blake Bortles when they look at Josh Allen?  Blake was supposed to be Big Ben 2.0, but his lack of consistency and accuracy issues have turned him into a very mediocre QB.  He's had a bit of a bounce back year, but he hasn't gotten anywhere close to where he was projected to be.  

[jetskid007]

2 hours ago, barnaby8787 said:

Just going on comps, anyone else see a more athletic Blake Bortles when they look at Josh Allen?  Blake was supposed to be Big Ben 2.0, but his lack of consistency and accuracy issues have turned him into a very mediocre QB.  He's had a bit of a bounce back year, but he hasn't gotten anywhere close to where he was projected to be.  

Bucky Brooks compared him to Bortles as well. The thing with Allen is his arm strength, throwing mechanics, and overall skill set are far superior to Bortles. Allen's mechanics need a lot of work, but I hated Bortles' throwing motion and footwork. I think people looked at Bortles' college stats and assumed he was accurate, but he never was to begin with... I think Allen could've put up those numbers on that UCF team as well based on physical talent alone, much like Cam Newton put up huge numbers at Auburn despite being raw. 

Where Allen is behind Bortles (at least I think) is upstairs, and that's one of the biggest questions I have with Allen (processing speed, decision making, accuracy). 

People are going to look at Allen's stats and immediately disregard him. You can't. He's one of the most unique prospects at the QB position in the last 20 years. Completely overlooked as a recruit, went to JUCO, ended up in Wyoming and then everyone was able to see the talent. Usually guys like him are discovered in high school, trained, attending national QB camps, etc. He never got that. He's from a farm town in the middle-of-nowhere California, 3-sport athlete in high school, and had a late growth spurt. Now he's this dazzling freak of a QB prospect, and teams are saying "give me this guy, I'll mold him into a star", but you can't discount how raw he is. It's going to take him a while for the training wheels to come off, even when he is a starting QB, and if a team does not have a specific plan in place for him it can very well all go wrong like it did for Jake Locker (however, Locker wasn't very committed to the game in the first place). 

 

For all these reasons, I compare him to Cam Newton. Cam was on the national scene long before he entered college, but Allen needs to be coddled in a similar way that he was for 3-4 years. You want teams to find creative ways to let Allen use his legs so that he has more open receivers early on, which will build his confidence and hopefully his accuracy over time. Unlike Cam, I think Allen needs to sit on the bench as well. Problem is, not many teams are willing to do this in this era of the NFL. You need to have an established HC, established QB, and an organization who is in full control and fully confident in its process who will not be influenced by an angry fanbase or angry owner to get the QB on the field. 

 

 

[CalhounLambeau]

I wish I got more of an alpha/high confidence vibe from Josh Allen. All the best guys are wired the same way. Recent guys like Wentz, Goff and Watson are in that mold and are made of iron. It's something I look for. I'm not done with Allen yet but he worries me. The NFL might be really big for him. I wonder if he's wired to handle it all. 

[Rich7sena]

2 minutes ago, CalhounLambeau said:

I wish I got more of an alpha/high confidence vibe from Josh Allen. All the best guys are wired the same way. Recent guys like Wentz, Goff and Watson are in that mold and are made of iron. It's something I look for. I'm not done with Allen yet but he worries me. The NFL might be really big for him. I wonder if he's wired to handle it all. 

I never got that vibe and still don't from Goff.

I don't believe all the best guys are wired the same. Something that is important for me -- and you pointed this out -- is a level of calmness, however it manifests. For guys like Eli, Rodgers, and Flacco, it's more of a laid back, confident vibe. For Wentz, Cousins, and Brees, it's more of a galvanizing "rah-rah" style. 

[Forge]

17 minutes ago, CalhounLambeau said:

I wish I got more of an alpha/high confidence vibe from Josh Allen. All the best guys are wired the same way. Recent guys like Wentz, Goff and Watson are in that mold and are made of iron. It's something I look for. I'm not done with Allen yet but he worries me. The NFL might be really big for him. I wonder if he's wired to handle it all. 

His demeanor isn't super high on the list of things that concern me. Too many other large issues...and I say that as a fan lol. But I agree with @Rich7sena that I never got that vibe from Goff. Also never got that with Alex Smith, but sometimes it's more of a low key thing as I do think that he's proven that he's had that in his career, so I suppose certain people exude that stuff in different manners. 

[CalhounLambeau]

19 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I never got that vibe and still don't from Goff.

I spent more time researching him than any other player I've ever worked on. He's a unique/hard guy to figure out on the surface. But he's a savage and good at hiding it. He just walked into LA and owned it from the start like it was nothing. Wasn't the least bit surprised.