2018 Draft Eligible QB Thread

[jetskid007]

9 hours ago, Teen Girl Squad said:

Agreed. Its been a pet peeve of mine. People revere the QB so much that they almost want to draft superheros more than people who are able to throw the ball at an NFL level. Flacco, Eli and Rodgers aren't natural leaders. Roethlisberger isn't a 'Gruden grinder" off the field in prep. Rivers is a prodigious (though PG13) trash talker. These are humans playing football and I think a lot of overdrafts come because evaluators marginalize the tape/football things and fall in love with their "intangibles." They matter, a lot, but it doesn't transcend physical skills. Mark Sanchez is allegedly everything you want in a NFL QB intangibles wise, just doesn't have the skill level to execute it. Goff's best skill in college, and in the NFL, is his natural accuracy. I think he maybe a top 5 QB already in terms of ball placement. Its just a matter if he can continue to learn the mental side of the game.

Eh Mark definitely had the physical skills. Also, he was known to be a bit of a partier, but he worked hard and everyone loved him. I genuinely believe he failed in the NFL because of the Jets/Rex Ryan/Brian Schottenheimer. He probably should've went to school another year, but we did him ZERO favors after drafting him. We sacrificed his development in order to win-now. We treated him like a baby for 2 years, not letting him truly learn how to play the position, then in his 3rd year took away all the talent and said "go win us games." Thereafter we continued to stunt his growth and destroy his confidence. Don't care what young QB you pick, I'd argue 10-out-of-10 would've busted with those teams, despite the fact that it was the last time we made the playoffs.

Getting back to the original topic, I think the point is that the "clean" prospects with high leadership marks are easier to project in the NFL than the ones with questionable character early on. It's a sign of maturity, and that's what decision-makers look for when making such a crucial decision. No GM wants to be known as the person who took Ryan Leaf 2.0. 

[Teen Girl Squad]

1 hour ago, jetskid007 said:

Eh Mark definitely had the physical skills. Also, he was known to be a bit of a partier, but he worked hard and everyone loved him. I genuinely believe he failed in the NFL because of the Jets/Rex Ryan/Brian Schottenheimer. He probably should've went to school another year, but we did him ZERO favors after drafting him. We sacrificed his development in order to win-now. We treated him like a baby for 2 years, not letting him truly learn how to play the position, then in his 3rd year took away all the talent and said "go win us games." Thereafter we continued to stunt his growth and destroy his confidence. Don't care what young QB you pick, I'd argue 10-out-of-10 would've busted with those teams, despite the fact that it was the last time we made the playoffs.

Getting back to the original topic, I think the point is that the "clean" prospects with high leadership marks are easier to project in the NFL than the ones with questionable character early on. It's a sign of maturity, and that's what decision-makers look for when making such a crucial decision. No GM wants to be known as the person who took Ryan Leaf 2.0. 

By physical skills do you just mean arm strength and general athleticism? I've come to believe things like accuracy are a lot more "genetic" than learned and that we undervalue it, assuming grit and grind will over come it. I think that strategy has failed (see Tebow, Locker etc...). Of course, no one is saying that personality traits don't matter (of course they do) but that people kind of assume that being a good NFL QB automatically makes you a good human being (and then assume that the reverse is true, that if you are a good human with an NFL body that you will be a good NFL QB).

[CWood21]

21 hours ago, Teen Girl Squad said:

Agreed. Its been a pet peeve of mine. People revere the QB so much that they almost want to draft superheros more than people who are able to throw the ball at an NFL level. Flacco, Eli and Rodgers aren't natural leaders. Roethlisberger isn't a 'Gruden grinder" off the field in prep. Rivers is a prodigious (though PG13) trash talker. These are humans playing football and I think a lot of overdrafts come because evaluators marginalize the tape/football things and fall in love with their "intangibles." They matter, a lot, but it doesn't transcend physical skills. Mark Sanchez is allegedly everything you want in a NFL QB intangibles wise, just doesn't have the skill level to execute it. Goff's best skill in college, and in the NFL, is his natural accuracy. I think he maybe a top 5 QB already in terms of ball placement. Its just a matter if he can continue to learn the mental side of the game.

What exactly did Mark Sanchez lack in the skillset department?

[jrry32]

On 12/31/2017 at 2:24 PM, CalhounLambeau said:

I spent more time researching him than any other player I've ever worked on. He's a unique/hard guy to figure out on the surface. But he's a savage and good at hiding it. He just walked into LA and owned it from the start like it was nothing. Wasn't the least bit surprised. 

I'm with Calhoun. If you followed the Rams closely last year, you'd know about Goff's unflappable confidence. Here's a great example of it:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/125257/rams-qb-jared-goff-you-can-learn-from-the-bad

Goff may not seem like it because he comes off as a laid back Cali bro, but he's a leader and extremely self confident.

[jetskid007]

12 hours ago, Teen Girl Squad said:

By physical skills do you just mean arm strength and general athleticism? I've come to believe things like accuracy are a lot more "genetic" than learned and that we undervalue it, assuming grit and grind will over come it. I think that strategy has failed (see Tebow, Locker etc...). Of course, no one is saying that personality traits don't matter (of course they do) but that people kind of assume that being a good NFL QB automatically makes you a good human being (and then assume that the reverse is true, that if you are a good human with an NFL body that you will be a good NFL QB).

All of it. I see what your saying about being born with accuracy; Alex Smith was able to overcome the struggles from his first few years, albeit with GREAT offensive coaching (Harbaugh, Reid). He wasn't as accurate as Smith, but Sanchez was a naturally accurate QB.  Sure, he threw to a lot of open receivers, but he made plenty of perfect tight throws in the intermediate range, had good ball-placement, and threw with anticipation in his limited college career. Also, he was comfortable going through progressions and was mechanically sound. He was a very good prospect. 

What happened? Our offense was basically a "run-and-shoot", emphasizing a heavy dose of play-action and intermediate/deep passing. We didn't make any attempts to give him easy throws and pre-determined reads for him. He didn't truly experience the "growing pains" a QB is supposed to learn. We kind of threw him into the fire in the sense that he was playing without actually throwing him in the fire. He got better in 2010 simply because he improved on what he was asked to do, but it's not like he was truly developing as an NFL quarterback. 

My best analogy: he was an intern at a powerful law-firm: everyone around him was so good that the intern served little importance outside of being the coffee boy. You don't learn anything that way. They did this for 2 years and although it worked in the short-term, it destroyed Mark Sanchez long-term. His instincts were on display for both our playoff runs and he always showed up for big games, but as the team around him got worse, so did Sanchez. They went from asking him to do nothing for 2 years to become Peyton Manning in year 3. He wasn't able to. They brought in new, pretty bad OCs in back-to-back years with no success, and Rex Ryan was to blame. Rex had no idea how to develop a QB and truly didn't care; he didn't understand that young QBs need to be treated differently than veteran guys. He assumed he could use the same blueprint that the Ravens did with Joe Flacco without any real knowledge of what to do in year 1 to year 2 besides giving Sanchez an arm band that said "red light, yellow light, green light"... philosophically it was a mess. 

Coaching for QBs is the single most important aspect in development in my opinion. Look at Goff: he went from being hard to watch to one of the best QBs in the league from Fisher to McVay. If Fisher were still there, I don't think Goff would've developed the way he has, and we might've been saying "what could've been" about him like I am for Sanchez right now. While he was not the level of prospect Goff, he was a very good, yet raw, prospect. Tebow and Locker were the truest sense of guys who the NFL thought they could change due to their athletic gifts, but they were never working out for anyone. I don't think that's the case for Sanchez by any means. The Jets destroyed him. To this day I believe he could have rebounded into an Andy Dalton caliber player if they moved on from Schottenheimer - an atrocious offensive coordinator - in 2011 and hired Rob Chudzinski (there were rumors we wanted to bring him in, but ultimately brought back Schottenheimer). Instead we subjected him to another year of Scotty's nonsense, then somehow made an even worse hire in Tony Sparano in 2011. Sanchez was doomed and while I don't want to make too many excuses for the guy, the Jets and Rex Ryan truly ruined his career. 

 

Jets QB rant over. 

[jetskid007]

Josh Allen will be attending the senior bowl

[CWood21]

35 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

Josh Allen will be attending the senior bowl

That makes 8 QBs going to the Senior Bowl...

[MD4L]

How should I feel about Josh Rosen? He's sort of developing into my "safe" QB choices considering his competition.

[BleedTheClock]

Whatever happened to Jake Browning? I always thought he was pretty much a bum, but a lot of people were big fans of his last season. Is he even in this draft class? I forgot all about his existence until earlier today when I heard Jacob Eason was transferring there.

[Jlash]

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

Whatever happened to Jake Browning? I always thought he was pretty much a bum, but a lot of people were big fans of his last season. Is he even in this draft class? I forgot all about his existence until earlier today when I heard Jacob Eason was transferring there.

He's still at UW.

[jrry32]

 

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

 

Good call by Baker. 

Though I really wish he did that just to bum $20 from McVay. 

[jrry32]

29 minutes ago, Forge said:

Good call by Baker. 

Though I really wish he did that just to bum $20 from McVay. 

He actually was asking McVay if his girlfriend has a younger sister. 

[Iamcanadian]

On 1/4/2018 at 12:13 AM, jetskid007 said:

Eh Mark definitely had the physical skills. Also, he was known to be a bit of a partier, but he worked hard and everyone loved him. I genuinely believe he failed in the NFL because of the Jets/Rex Ryan/Brian Schottenheimer. He probably should've went to school another year, but we did him ZERO favors after drafting him. We sacrificed his development in order to win-now. We treated him like a baby for 2 years, not letting him truly learn how to play the position, then in his 3rd year took away all the talent and said "go win us games." Thereafter we continued to stunt his growth and destroy his confidence. Don't care what young QB you pick, I'd argue 10-out-of-10 would've busted with those teams, despite the fact that it was the last time we made the playoffs.

Getting back to the original topic, I think the point is that the "clean" prospects with high leadership marks are easier to project in the NFL than the ones with questionable character early on. It's a sign of maturity, and that's what decision-makers look for when making such a crucial decision. No GM wants to be known as the person who took Ryan Leaf 2.0. 

I do not agree, mental toughness is a top quality every solid franchise QB possesses and the failures simply are not mentally tough. Most QB's drafted #1 overall come to a team almost devoid of talent and often struggle in their rookie seasons, but it just does not bother them, they pick themselves up and go on to great things the following season, the weak ones fall by the wayside.

It is not enough to have skills or even a lot of intangibles, if the last play always lingers in your mind, you will struggle in the NFL. The tough minded QB, just goes to the next play like the last one never happened and that cannot be taught, a QB either has it, or he does not and Sanchez just never had it and therefore was doomed to failure. 

Peyton threw something like 26 interceptions as a rookie, did it even slow him down, not one bit, Eli stunk as a rookie and lately Goff stunk as a rookie, but they just pick themselves up and go on to the next play till they got it right. That is why they are/were franchise QB's!!! 

[Tugboat]

On 1/5/2018 at 1:16 PM, MD4L said:

How should I feel about Josh Rosen? He's sort of developing into my "safe" QB choices considering his competition.

He feels the "safest" in that he's a lot more polished, coming out of a more easily projectable system, and has plenty adequate tools across the board.  Whereas the other guys all come with some notable "total bust" potential.  Rosen does have the questions about durability that could hold him back, and probably more than that...teams are gonna have to really do their homework on the attitude/mentality/charisma/intangibles stuff.  It seems overblown from my armchair, but if there's any real substantiation to the rumors that seem to follow him around a bit, that he's not particularly well liked by a lot of teammates, not the most inspiring leader, and a bit of a "spoiled brat", etc...there's some more hidden bust potential in that.

I wonder a bit about his upside too.  Watching him, it always feels like there's something kinda missing.  Not any one specific fatal flaw, but sort of a combination of a lot of "good enough" traits, and some head-scratching decisions here and there that leaves me a bit cold.  Very Andy Dalton-esque vibes.

In this draft though, if you really need a QB at the top...he might still be the best choice.  I'd just hate to be drafting a QB that high that seems more "safe", than easy to get really excited about.