2018 Draft Eligible QB Thread

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, jarren said:

Josh Rosen = Matt Ryan without the leadership qualities. 

Isn't that basically Ryan Tannehill, though?

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

Rosen is my top QB this year, I have zero questions about his arm strength. He’s an anticipation thrower, consistent in his dropbacks from snap to snap, manipulates the pocket like a pro and throws with accuracy. That’s what I want in a quarterback and he’s the best of the bunch.

I had serious questions about his arm strength during the beginning of the year, but less after the year went on. He has about an average to above average arm. That said, durability remains a persistent concern for me. I also don't think he's one to elevate the talent on the team. Using verbiage from the Move the Sticks podcast (Jeremiah, Brooks), he's a trailer not a tractor.

[JJ6]

7 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Isn't that basically Matt Ryan, though?

I had serious questions about his arm strength during the beginning of the year, but less after the year went on. He has about an average to above average arm. That said, durability remains a persistent concern for me. I also don't think he's one to elevate the talent on the team. Using verbiage from the Move the Sticks podcast (Jeremiah, Brooks), he's a trailer not a tractor.

Not at all, Ryan is a great leader. 

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, jarren said:

Not at all, Ryan is a great leader. 

Meant Tannehill.

[JJ6]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

Meant Tannehill.

Tannehill has the athleticism to extend plays. Thats where Ryan and Rosen differ. They both rely heavily on a structured offense. Protection has to be sound, especially up the middle. If the pocket collapses its pretty much a wrap for them. Both of them are good at dissecting the defense and throwing with anticipation. Both have average arm strength. Both struggle throwing deep downfield as the ball tends to hang up in the air. 

[JJ6]

Really surpised at how low Tarvarius Moore is flying under the radar. He has huge upside at FS or CB. 

6'1 195, 4.32-second 40, 38.5-inch vertical leap and 11-foot-1 broad jump with long arms, exceptionally smooth hips and COD skills for a guy his size.

His tape is pretty solid too. Top 50 player in this class. 

 

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, jarren said:

Tannehill has the athleticism to extend plays. Thats where Ryan and Rosen differ. They both rely heavily on a structured offense. Protection has to be sound, especially up the middle. If the pocket collapses its pretty much a wrap for them. Both of them are good at dissecting the defense and throwing with anticipation. Both have average arm strength. Both struggle throwing deep downfield as the ball tends to hang up in the air. 

Tannehill's athleticism hasn't translated to the NFL, especially over the past few seasons. He doesn't do much, if anything, to extend the play or avoid an interior rush.

[goldfishwars]

Just now, Rich7sena said:

Isn't that basically Matt Ryan, though?

I had serious questions about his arm strength during the beginning of the year, but less after the year went on. He has about an average to above average arm. That said, durability remains a persistent concern for me. I also don't think he's one to elevate the talent on the team. Using verbiage from the Move the Sticks podcast (Jeremiah, Brooks), he's a trailer not a tractor.

Durability is my one concern with him. 

I heard that podcast too, could not disagree more with that assessment. Being a repetetive technician doesn’t mean you automatically get popped in a game manager category, it’s what Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees built their entire careers around. I’m not saying he’s in that class, but he’s coming into the league with a floor higher than the other QBs will be lucky to reach.

[goldfishwars]

Great write up by Greg Cosell on Josh Rosen here. Agree with him that he is the best in a very good class.

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-cosells-draft-analysis-josh-rosen-refined-perhaps-best-qb-class-151629623.html

To succeed as a quarterback in the NFL over the long term, you need to be successful from the pocket. Rosen has a lot of tools needed to play from the pocket, such as a decisiveness playing within the structure of the offense, but also enough mobility to make second-reaction plays. While he might not have high-level arm strength, he has a good arm and he consistently succeeded with timing, anticipation and accuracy. That almost always transitions well to the NFL.

You get a sense of Rosen’s refinement as a prospect in many ways. Each quarterback near the top of this year’s draft has strengths, and are all high-level prospects in their own ways. But it wouldn’t surprise me if Rosen ends up being the best of the group. There aren’t many knocks on him coming into the NFL.

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Great write up by Greg Cosell on Josh Rosen here. Agree with him that he is the best in a very good class.

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-cosells-draft-analysis-josh-rosen-refined-perhaps-best-qb-class-151629623.html

To succeed as a quarterback in the NFL over the long term, you need to be successful from the pocket. Rosen has a lot of tools needed to play from the pocket, such as a decisiveness playing within the structure of the offense, but also enough mobility to make second-reaction plays. While he might not have high-level arm strength, he has a good arm and he consistently succeeded with timing, anticipation and accuracy. That almost always transitions well to the NFL.

You get a sense of Rosen’s refinement as a prospect in many ways. Each quarterback near the top of this year’s draft has strengths, and are all high-level prospects in their own ways. But it wouldn’t surprise me if Rosen ends up being the best of the group. There aren’t many knocks on him coming into the NFL.

Sounds like a less perfect Jared Goff. 

[Shanedorf]

As the draft approaches, I pulled this from the Wayback Machine:

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

AFC scout: "I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."

Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."

NFC scout: "(Alex) Smith is the better athlete."

AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."

Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "I'd give Rodgers the edge (over Smith) just because he was easier to evaluate. And there's a little more arm. But the edge is negligible."

NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."

Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."

AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."

NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.

[Iamcanadian]

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

These are the real reason Rodgers dropped on draft day. He was another in a long line of Tedford QB's who had all flopped at the next level and had all been high draft picks. It simply scared GM's too much to take a shot at him as a high pick and he was likely lucky that he got to sit and remake himself re his technique, otherwise he might have suffered the same fate. 

[Broncofan]

FWIW, the system Rosen would be playing would be huge for his longevity.   Most of the big injuries to QB's are where they're out of the pocket, but another risk would come from a system where the QB might be asked to hang in the pocket to let longer developing routes develop.   A WCO, quick-hitting, up-tempo O would mitigate the risk significantly.   And in the NFL, a pocket passer is much more protected than when they're scrambling.    There's still risk, but it's no coincidence that pure pocket guys who rarely venture outside the pocket seem to go on forever, while scrambling, make-magic-happen with their feet guys get in harm's way.   

Personally, Darnold is still my #1, but Rosen's my #2 because of the above.   Both just show the feel, anticipation, ball placement, accuracy, and ability to throw guys open.  Those are the most predictable skills for NFL success.   I do worry about Rosen's shoulder, but as a pure pocket passer, he's going to put himself at risk a lot less than a Darnold/Allen will - especially if he's put in a rhythm/quick-hitting WCO.   It's why I'd be really upset if DEN passed on him if he was there at 1.5 with Musgrave's O - the same O that had Carr getting rid of the ball IIRC in a top-3 fastest time from snap when he was OC, and which mixed spread concepts with power run, multiple looks and quick decisions at the LOS.   Rosen would excel in that kind of system (beyond the rookie learning curve year, of course) and mitigate his injury risk big-time.

 

[minutemancl]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:25 PM, goldfishwars said:

Durability is my one concern with him. 

I heard that podcast too, could not disagree more with that assessment. Being a repetetive technician doesn’t mean you automatically get popped in a game manager category, it’s what Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees built their entire careers around. I’m not saying he’s in that class, but he’s coming into the league with a floor higher than the other QBs will be lucky to reach.

The durability is the reason I think he has been ruled out by the Giants. Imagine going from ironman Eli to a guy who can't play 16 games. That, and I think there are other QBs in the draft better suited to run Shurmur's WCO.

[tyler735]

It will be interesting to see where Lamar Jackson ends up. He's the most physically gifted QB I've seen since Vick in 2001. It's been interesting to see the positive reviews by the Patriots and Saints after meeting with him this offseason. As a Saints fan I'd be ecstatic if we found a way to get him in round 1. I think he has a very similar impact as Deshaun Watson whenever he gets his 1st start.

[Shanedorf]

Here's former NFL journeyman Dan Orlovsky breaking down the top 5 QBs in this class for the Players Tribune

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/dan-orlovsky-2018-nfl-draft-class-quarterback-breakdown