2018 Draft Eligible Non-Rush DL Thread

[Iamcanadian]

On 3/4/2018 at 3:30 AM, jrry32 said:

I want to preface this post by saying I like Harrison Phillips, but I don't understand how Phillips is a Round 1/2 pick while Derrick Nnadi is a Round 3/4 pick. Nnadi's film is quite comparable to Phillips'. While Nnadi doesn't possess the explosiveness to be a dynamic disruptor, he's going to be a rock in the middle of somebody's defense. His film is consistent as it comes against the run. And he gets a lot of movement as a pass rusher, even if he isn't a sack artist. He's going to be a glue guy at the next level.

The simple fact is that a DT must be a sack artist to get a high ranking, he has to show that he can collapse a pocket or work the seams to get to the QB on a consistent basis. Run stuffers are generally lower picks. For me Phillips is no better than a round 2 guy, he is pretty solid in all facets of the game but not nearly explosive enough as a pass rusher to get into round 1.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Iamcanadian said:

The simple fact is that a DT must be a sack artist to get a high ranking, he has to show that he can collapse a pocket or work the seams to get to the QB on a consistent basis. Run stuffers are generally lower picks. For me Phillips is no better than a round 2 guy, he is pretty solid in all facets of the game but not nearly explosive enough as a pass rusher to get into round 1.

Yea, I agree. The point I was making is that Nnadi has a similar style and game.

[Iamcanadian]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yea, I agree. The point I was making is that Nnadi has a similar style and game.

Nnadi problem could come from the fact that Florida St. collapsed as a team and perhaps his film indicates he let up a bit, which would not be all that surprising, if all the players around him, had basically quite on the team. It must have been a downer to play last season for Florida St. Hard to be 100%er when all your teammates aren't working hard, plus he is a bit short for the position and for a run stuffer, not as heavy as you would like.

[Darbsk]

5 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I do not know where this 'not a pass rusher is coming from'. Payne can put a lot of pressure on a QB and is viewed that way by pro scouts and GM's. The fact he is a decent run stuffer as well doesn't mean he is see as that alone. 

He will be drafted quite high because he can rush the QB, the run stuffing is just a bonus!!! There is zero chance he ever gets close to round 2, unless there are unknown medical issues or sudden drug notifications that arise from testing at the Combine!!!

Interesting, and I'd probably agree though I do think he would be a better run stopper than pass rusher initially at the next level until he adds some polish. Maybe it's just the people I've talked with but they seem to be undervaluing his pass rush. I wouldn't be mad if the Raiders drafted him in the first round TBH as I see him having the highest floor of all the DTs in this draft and making an immediate impact although his ceiling may not be quite where Hurst and Vea could potentially be.

Does anyone think his lack of production in the pass rush whilst playing on a tremendous line in college is an issue when he'll be up against superior linemen?

 

[MSURacerDT55]

7 hours ago, jrry32 said:

There isn't much up with regard to cut-ups. I thought he looked like garbage in the NDSU game. I saw some good and bad in the Incarnate Word game. I wish there was more. I was really excited about him based on his production, but I haven't been able to find the film that blows me away.

I hate that that was the first game you saw of him, that was the worst game he played but if you noticed he had two bodies on him pretty much every snap. He is active, a natural pass rusher and has a good motor 

 

On 3/24/2018 at 8:06 AM, Darbsk said:

Does anyone think that Payne could slip into the second round on the premise that he's primarily a run stuffer with limited pass rush? Just to be clear I think he's got potential to be a 3T in a 4-3 if he can polish his pass rush technique and really like him as a player but a few players recently have taken a tumble down the draft due to being perceived as a run stopper.

Won't happen, plus since when has being good against the run a flaw? All he did was do what he was coached to do at Bama, their scheme isn't about blowing up the field and penetrating, they punch/press and hold down multiple gaps, then sit OGs into the QB's lap. He's a power rusher, but also he does have a finesse game to him as well (If you watch film, he has a sneaky good swim move), its like he is being punished for doing what he has been coached to do. His strength translates on the field and he plays with ultra-violent hands, as violent has i've seen

[Darbsk]

2 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

On 24/03/2018 at 12:06 PM, Darbsk said:

Does anyone think that Payne could slip into the second round on the premise that he's primarily a run stuffer with limited pass rush? Just to be clear I think he's got potential to be a 3T in a 4-3 if he can polish his pass rush technique and really like him as a player but a few players recently have taken a tumble down the draft due to being perceived as a run stopper.

Won't happen, plus since when has being good against the run a flaw? All he did was do what he was coached to do at Bama, their scheme isn't about blowing up the field and penetrating, they punch/press and hold down multiple gaps, then sit OGs into the QB's lap. He's a power rusher, but also he does have a finesse game to him as well (If you watch film, he has a sneaky good swim move), its like he is being punished for doing what he has been coached to do. His strength translates on the field and he plays with ultra-violent hands, as violent has i've seen

Oh, it's absolutely not a flaw and I happen to think Payne is a great prospect, just a few guys I've been high on over the last few years have taken a tumble due to being perceived as more one dimensional than they are. I guess I'm hoping one of the top defensive tackles will take a tumble and my Raiders will be able to pick them up in the top of the second round - more hope than expectation! 

Thanks for the input on the Alabama games, I'm only able to see college games sporadically and am not keyed up on the schemes and coaching nuances at college level so it's difficult to put the players in context of their assignments.

[MSURacerDT55]

8 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Oh, it's absolutely not a flaw and I happen to think Payne is a great prospect, just a few guys I've been high on over the last few years have taken a tumble due to being perceived as more one dimensional than they are. I guess I'm hoping one of the top defensive tackles will take a tumble and my Raiders will be able to pick them up in the top of the second round - more hope than expectation! 

Thanks for the input on the Alabama games, I'm only able to see college games sporadically and am not keyed up on the schemes and coaching nuances at college level so it's difficult to put the players in context of their assignments.

There are some good guys out there and some come from unconventional places.You can do just as well with a Nathan Shepherd, Trenton Thompson, Andrew Brown, RJ McIntosh or PJ Hall, all high upside guys that you can have at the 2nd or later. As far as one dropping, your best bet may be Maurice Hurst

[Broncofan]

Fantastic news for Hurst's draft stock IMO.

 

[Jeezla]

If Andrew Brown goes in the 3rd or later, and goes to a one gap scheme, he is going to be a steal. I want him on the Eagles rotating with Cox, Jernigan, and Ngata. Hoping he doesn't go to the Cowboys or Giants. Same goes for Nate Shepherd, but he'll probably go early round 2.

[MSURacerDT55]

The mid rounds are going to be great to find a high upside DT in this class

[Ozzy]

On 3/27/2018 at 7:56 AM, MSURacerDT55 said:

There are some good guys out there and some come from unconventional places.You can do just as well with a Nathan Shepherd, Trenton Thompson, Andrew Brown, RJ McIntosh or PJ Hall, all high upside guys that you can have at the 2nd or later. As far as one dropping, your best bet may be Maurice Hurst

Not a huge fan of some of these guys late at DT.  Also could argue Trenton Thompson and Andrew Brown are 3/4 DEs not a true DE, maybe even with RJ McIntosh as well.  Poona Ford could be of value mid round I feel, not a great athlete but surprising production inside this past year I thought.  Steven Richardson could be a steal with the poor system he played in this year, as a JR he was a lot better getting to the QB, even did better as a FR and SOPH than this past year.  Kendrick Norton is decent talent mid to late round, Stallworth I like and Lotulelei has ability, Breeland Speaks is arguably the most productive but is more of a 3/4 DE I feel.  Tyler Lancaster could be a nice late round pick but some view him as a possible OL, and Christian LaCouture is ok but never was amazed by his play on the field, ok workout though with nice bench numbers. 

 

PJ Hall is very interesting, that workout is amazing at 310 with 4.76 speed and 36 bench.  Crazy impressive and plays with great effort, he could easily be gone by the 2nd or 3rd round with that kind of workout and size.  On tape though he is not really that strong, against NDSU in the semifinal he did little to nothing at all against that very solid pro style front and offense.  They just ran all over that D and Hall did not show up much what so ever.

 

Does have very impressive stats though but obviously not against elite competition.

2014 24 TFL 12 Sacks, 93 Tackles, 5 Blocked Kicks

2015 19 TFL 11 Sacks, 75 Tackles, 5 Blocked Kicks

2016 24.5 TFL 13 Sacks, 56 Tackles

2017 19 TFL 6 Sacks, 60 Tackles, 4 Blocked Kicks

 

So total 86.5 TFL and 42 Sacks in four year career.

 

Super impressive block kick numbers though that is for sure.  But the tape against NDSU again was not anything special at all.  Could not get off the block often, did not get much push and struggled against the run.  Will be interesting where he goes for sure.

[jebrick]

Harrison Phillips is one of the dominate run stuffers in this draft.  He could play 0 or 5 tech.  For a late round pick I like Tim Settle or Poona Ford.  Neither would start for a while.  Phillips could start day 1.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Harrison Phillips is one of the dominate run stuffers in this draft.  He could play 0 or 5 tech.  For a late round pick I like Tim Settle or Poona Ford.  Neither would start for a while.  Phillips could start day 1.

I agree, Phillips is awesome and totally worth a 1st round pick.  Outside of Vea and Payne he is easily the best DT in the draft.  Great motor and really is a productive tackler from his DT spot which is rare, helps show the effort he plays with.  

[Broncofan]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I agree, Phillips is awesome and totally worth a 1st round pick.  Outside of Vea and Payne he is easily the best DT in the draft.  Great motor and really is a productive tackler from his DT spot which is rare, helps show the effort he plays with.  

The thing is, if he's 3rd behind Vea & Payne, then he's not likely worth a 1st round pick.   NT's rarely go past 1-2 guys in Rd1.  That position gets devalued so much.   There's no clear #3 behind Vea & Payne (although if we're ok with a 4-3 DT, then Hurst is my guy at #3, but not for a 3-4 team looking for 0 tech, obv).

I think last year there were 90+ guys who had national scouts give a potential 1st-round spot for - obviously something's gotta give there.

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, jebrick said:

Harrison Phillips is one of the dominate run stuffers in this draft.  He could play 0 or 5 tech.  For a late round pick I like Tim Settle or Poona Ford.  Neither would start for a while.  Phillips could start day 1.

Settle isn't a late round pick. He's going Day 2. He's far too gifted to fall that far.