Update: Urban Meyer suspended 3 games

[zelbell]

6 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Tough thing about Day is that even with Urban out, it's incredibly likely that this OSU team is still going to be very, very good, so you can't necessarily get an idea for how good of a head coach he is.

I'd think it would be similar to maybe Lincoln Riley last year? Young HC with a very talented team

[PAW]

7 minutes ago, Raves said:

Ok, so the only issue here seems really to be whether or not Meyer knew about the 2015 incident and reported it to the university?  I dont see how anything else is an issue.  There is no law saying you cant hire or decide not to fire someone based on domestic violence accusations and since it was already reported to the police and being investigated he had no requirement to report the incident there and to just be cooperative if asked questions by police right.

I mean outside of one specific instance in his contract i dont see the issue here or why he should be fired. 

Title IX is taken pretty seriously.  Could get the entire university sued. 

[JammerHammer21]

3 minutes ago, zelbell said:

I'd think it would be similar to maybe Lincoln Riley last year? Young HC with a very talented team

How much of the offense does Day run? Riley was renowned as a tremendous offensive mind and had total control of it (plus, he was coming off the Broyles)

[zelbell]

4 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

How much of the offense does Day run? Riley was renowned as a tremendous offensive mind and had total control of it (plus, he was coming off the Broyles)

I think a lot of the concepts we introduced last year were Day (more tempo, mesh routes, more RPO) but I think Wilson was the one actually calling plays

[buno67]

20 minutes ago, zelbell said:

I think a lot of the concepts we introduced last year were Day (more tempo, mesh routes, more RPO) but I think Wilson was the one actually calling plays

Well Wilson ran a lot of that at IU depending on the talent he had that season. He was so good at playing to the strength of his team

[BroncoSojia]

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, Raves said:

Ok, so the only issue here seems really to be whether or not Meyer knew about the 2015 incident and reported it to the university?  I dont see how anything else is an issue.  There is no law saying you cant hire or decide not to fire someone based on domestic violence accusations and since it was already reported to the police and being investigated he had no requirement to report the incident there and to just be cooperative if asked questions by police right.

I mean outside of one specific instance in his contract i dont see the issue here or why he should be fired. 

I'm also with you on this. It sounds bad but I feel it's kinda overblown a little bit. 

[candyman93]

Matt Campbell hasn’t done ****.

 

We’d call Chip and some NFL guys before him.

[BobbyPhil1781]

OK wait, so the interview w/ Ms Smith says that she never received word from Shelley that she had told Urban about this. Who else would have told Urban?? Is there any direct evidence that Urban knew about this or is it all circumstantial?? Is there a smoking gun or is it just someone THINKS Urban knows?? 

[DalCowboyzRule]

Please god almighty hire Matt Campbell.

ISU struck gold with that guy.

[DalCowboyzRule]

56 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Matt Campbell hasn’t done ****.

 

We’d call Chip and some NFL guys before him.

Beat playoff OU and 11-3 TCU. 

Lost 5 games all year by a total of 25 points. Could have easily won 10 games in his 2nd season at IOWA STATE.

This is after taking Toledo to three 9 win seasons in 4 years.

He’s a STUD.

[IDOG_det]

Great piece by Michael McCann, a sports law expert that worked with Ed O'Bannon, edited the handbook on Sports Law, legal analyst for SI, etc. https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/08/01/urban-meyer-zach-smith-ohio-state-legal-contract-firing-paid-leave

 

"There are a number of legal questions that various stakeholders will attempt to answer in the approaching days, weeks and months. One is whether Urban Meyer and/or Shelley Meyer may have failed to adhere to reporting obligations under the Title IX (as well as reporting obligations under the Clery Act and Title VII) and, if so, the potential ramifications for them and Ohio State. As with other Ohio State employees who supervise students, both Urban Meyer, as head coach of the Ohio State football team, and Shelley Meyer, as an instructor in Ohio State’s College of Nursing, are required to make timely reports of certain allegations of sexual violence and harassment to relevant university administrators. Those administrators include Ohio State’s Title IX coordinator and, in the case of Urban Meyer’s reporting, athletic director Gene Smith. "

 

"Should Ohio State at some point move to fire Meyer with cause, he would almost certainly then sue the school for breach of contract. Meyer would stress, among other points, that Smith was not convicted of any crimes. In addition, Meyer would argue that he was under no legal obligation to fire Smith and that none of Meyer’s superiors instructed him to fire Smith. Meyer might also express or imply that other university officials, such as the athletic director, general counsel and dean-level administrators, had multiple opportunities to learn of, and respond appropriately to, the allegations against Smith. To the extent Meyer could implicate other university officials in any wrongdoing, the school might seek to avert a lawsuit and negotiate a settlement with him."

[IDOG_det]

4 hours ago, Raves said:

since it was already reported to the police and being investigated he had no requirement to report the incident there and to just be cooperative if asked questions by police right.

No, that's not correct. That's actually similar to the lies used by Baylor used to cover up rape. They are still required to report to their superiors and to the Title IX Compliance Office/Officers even if it has already been reported to the police. Similarly, they still have to report incidents and allegations even if charges are not filed to law enforcement (that's the lie Baylor used to cover up rape). Under Title IX he is required to report any incident or allegation "that concern the programs or activities of the university". From Ohio State's sexual misconduct policy: “Any employee who receives a disclosure of a sexual assault or becomes aware of information that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a sexual assault may have occurred involving anyone covered under this policy, must report all known information immediately”. Domestic violence is included (stalking specifically). In 2015 Smith was investigated for assault, domestic violence, and stalking. In 2016 he was accused of trying to enter his ex-wifes house while making threats and was given a criminal trespass warning. He violated that warning and was arrested for misdemeanor trespass (which is what got him fired). All of this falls under Title IX. None of it was reported. If it actually was reported and no one did anything about it then Ohio State could be found to have a lack of institutional control (which could get the University President, AD, and Meyer all fired). As well, if it actually was reported, then that means Urban Meyer lied to the public when he said he knew nothing about it, which would give Ohio State an opportunity to fire him with cause based on certain provisions in his contract.

No matter how you look at it, Urban Meyer failed under Title IX or other NCAA bylaws. He was placed on administrative leave with pay, which basically means that Ohio State is preparing for the possibility that they will fire him. Urban Meyer will sue Ohio State if they fire him without cause (although his legal argument would be weak based on some of the language in his contract). Basically, he has a pretty bad legal argument if he gets fired with cause but he might be able to take down Gene Smith and others with him. The administrative leave is likely just an opportunity to negotiate an outcome where no one else has to get fired, no more information gets made public, and Urban gets some kind of money. If for some reason Urban Meyer does not get fired, it is likely that the NCAA will launch an investigation into the situation and into the university because, if this somehow wasn't covered up, then there was a clear failure on Ohio State's behalf from a Title IX and compliance perspective.

[NateDawg]

I think OSU fans may as well prepare for life beyond Urbz. Best case scenario if that happens is that Day is a great up and coming coach, takes off where Meyer has left off, and keeps the recruiting going. We will see what happens. 

I think the thing that people should be pleased with is that OSU acted well with this (so far). I think a lot of top notch universities out there would put a coach like that on a pedestal and try to defend him unnecessarily. My guess is that there are some very prestigious programs out there with much worse skeletons than thus, that are buried. Not downplaying Meyer on this at all. Dude screwed up and can only look at himself if he loses his job. If things end with Meyer, that’s unfortunate and will hurt the program. But at least nobody can say it was poorly handled by OSU. 

I just have a hard time seeing him keep his job with this. Whether or not he should. The PR alone is already a nightmare and would only get way worse. Only saving grace is if other information somehow comes out that exonerates Meyer, which seems unlikely. 

[Raves]

41 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

No, that's not correct. That's actually similar to the lies used by Baylor used to cover up rape. They are still required to report to their superiors and to the Title IX Compliance Office/Officers even if it has already been reported to the police. Similarly, they still have to report incidents and allegations even if charges are not filed to law enforcement (that's the lie Baylor used to cover up rape). Under Title IX he is required to report any incident or allegation "that concern the programs or activities of the university". From Ohio State's sexual misconduct policy: “Any employee who receives a disclosure of a sexual assault or becomes aware of information that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a sexual assault may have occurred involving anyone covered under this policy, must report all known information immediately”. Domestic violence is included (stalking specifically). In 2015 Smith was investigated for assault, domestic violence, and stalking. In 2016 he was accused of trying to enter his ex-wifes house while making threats and was given a criminal trespass warning. He violated that warning and was arrested for misdemeanor trespass (which is what got him fired). All of this falls under Title IX. None of it was reported. If it actually was reported and no one did anything about it then Ohio State could be found to have a lack of institutional control (which could get the University President, AD, and Meyer all fired). As well, if it actually was reported, then that means Urban Meyer lied to the public when he said he knew nothing about it, which would give Ohio State an opportunity to fire him with cause based on certain provisions in his contract.

No matter how you look at it, Urban Meyer failed under Title IX or other NCAA bylaws. He was placed on administrative leave with pay, which basically means that Ohio State is preparing for the possibility that they will fire him. Urban Meyer will sue Ohio State if they fire him without cause (although his legal argument would be weak based on some of the language in his contract). Basically, he has a pretty bad legal argument if he gets fired with cause but he might be able to take down Gene Smith and others with him. The administrative leave is likely just an opportunity to negotiate an outcome where no one else has to get fired, no more information gets made public, and Urban gets some kind of money. If for some reason Urban Meyer does not get fired, it is likely that the NCAA will launch an investigation into the situation and into the university because, if this somehow wasn't covered up, then there was a clear failure on Ohio State's behalf from a Title IX and compliance perspective.

This is of course if Urban knew and not just his wife though right?  Obviously if Shelley didn't tell Urban about the text messages and by Smith's own admission he purposely kept his legal troubles to himself and didnt disclose to Urban going against the advice of his lawyer.

Also is what he said to the media, not an actual governing body, against his contract?  I'm not going to look into all the fine details because I'm not a lawyer or have amy legal background so I'm just going based on how i understand things.

Now if he violated his contract and the other rules then if he gets fired its his own fault.  Sucks to lose a great coach but its THE Ohio State and we'll find another coach and still be a top program.

Also why does someone have to report it to the police if they know for a fact, with the words of the accuser themselves, that the police are already investigating, especially of all they have is what they were told by the accuser.  I guess i just dont understand the aspect of it by law.