Random Thoughts

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

On the backs of the refs. And, while he did throw for three TD's in that SB, he also had a key red zone INT with NE up 21-10. You only look at what Brady did do, and you don't look at the mistakes and shortcomings.

What about the fact that his team lost two SB's to the Giants: One where a prolific offense only scored 14 points, and another where he lost to a 9-7 team (the only QB to lose to a 9-7 team in the Super Bowl).

And there it is. Typical delusional anti-NE stuff. Refs, Ernie Adams, luck...

I do like that you think “but he didn’t win 8 Super Bowls” helps you. 

[thebestever6]

lol the best video lmao Edelman gets him . That catch Edelman made against Atlanta was the best catch I'll ever see in my life time. And then the ability not to be complacent and say that newspaper article is gonna be the bottom of a birdcage next week. It's guys like this that made the Patriot way.

 

 

 

[BroncoBruin]

I brought this on myself posting something even slightly critical of Brady, that’s like catnip for 7DB53 and his endless war against the “recognize Brady’s greatness” conspiracy.

As I said, it’s a different kind of greatness. It doesn’t jump out, but it’s consistent and it just builds over time. If he wins a SB outside NE, he’ll have checked every box imaginable. 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I brought this on myself posting something even slightly critical of Brady, that’s like catnip for 7DB53 and his endless war against the “recognize Brady’s greatness” conspiracy.

As I said, it’s a different kind of greatness. It doesn’t jump out, but it’s consistent and it just builds over time. If he wins a SB outside NE, he’ll have checked every box imaginable. 

I think both sides are totally right on Brady people saying he's a system Qb may have some points but that's the beauty of it. People get offended by that word I'd take it as a compliment. 

How many 43 year olds with the greatest resume of all time are coachable? How many guys have no ego and can care less about the Head coach Arians throwing shade at him in the media did it multiple times this season. 

I think that's a part of Toms greatness to be honest. He doesn't have that Superstar ego bill B would rip him in front of team meetings and players respected that hey if Tom can be coached like that no one's bigger than the team.

Just look at last year Brady says it's a year to year business and Aaron Rodgers another all timer wants "clarity." 

 

[BroncoBruin]

19 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think both sides are totally right on Brady people saying he's a system Qb may have some points but that's the beauty of it. People get offended by that word I'd take it as a compliment. 

How many 43 year olds with the greatest resume of all time are coachable? How many guys have no ego and can care less about the Head coach Arians throwing shade at him in the media did it multiple times this season. 

I think that's a part of Toms greatness to be honest. He doesn't have that Superstar ego bill B would rip him in front of team meetings and players respected that hey if Tom can be coached like that no one's bigger than the team.

Just look at last year Brady says it's a year to year business and Aaron Rodgers another all timer wants "clarity." 

 

Hard to buy the system QB narrative when Arians’ offense couldn’t be more different schematically and philosophically than NE’s and Brady has settled in and looked great. He can get the ball out quick with great timing, he can hold the ball and hit vertical shots, he knows every defense and he has a legendary competitive streak. At this point he’s just lapping the field. 

I think this is the part people go crazy over: he’s indisputably had the best career of any QB in football history. Has he played the game at a higher level than any other QB? That’s far less certain and I would personally say no. So it really comes down to how a person defines greatness in these conservations: is it weighed more toward body of work or peak dominance? In Brady’s case, the body of work is just so far beyond anyone else it makes up that ground.

Edited February 6, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[thebestever6]

4 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Hard to buy the system QB narrative when Arians’ offense couldn’t be more different schematically and philosophically than NE’s and Brady has settled in and looked great. He can get the ball out quick with great timing, he can hold the ball and hit vertical shots, he knows every defense and he has a legendary competitive streak. At this point he’s just lapping the field. 

I'm super impressed by two things rn one his age, and the fact you never heard about a superbowl hangover by a Brady led team. 

I do think they changed the offense up  after the bye and I do think Tampa is loaded.

And system QBs historically never become bugger than the team they never sniff themselves. I feel Brady probably sees himself as one even if he's not lol. He has that mentality it's unique. 

[BroncoBruin]

4 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm super impressed by two things rn one his age, and the fact you never heard about a superbowl hangover by a Brady led team. 

I do think they changed the offense up  after the bye and I do think Tampa is loaded.

And system QBs historically never become bugger than the team they never sniff themselves. I feel Brady probably sees himself as one even if he's not lol. He has that mentality it's unique. 

They’ve married some NE concepts to Arians’ scheme but it’s still an Arians offense. They attack downfield frequently and have been killing teams with it in the past couple months. 

[7DnBrnc53]

11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

And there it is. Typical delusional anti-NE stuff. Refs, Ernie Adams, luck...

I do like that you think “but he didn’t win 8 Super Bowls” helps you. 

I think you are just upset that someone is criticizing the "great" Tom Brady. A lot of fans have gotten this false idea that he is uncriticizable, which is ridiculous.

[AKRNA]

22 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Personally, I don’t consider him to be worthy of that group if we’re just talking about individual dominance. A career full of great accomplishments and big wins yes, but the wow factor and blowing away the competition in real time has not been part of the Brady experience the way it was with those other guys. 

The only thing that’s made me question putting him in the tier below that group is the potential to one-up every team on Sunday. That’s mind-blowing. But I’m still iffy because I’ve never watched Brady and thought “this is the pinnacle of NFL quarterback play” the way I have with Manning, Rodgers and Mahomes.

Similar to more than a few discussions had in the 80/90's, but then it was Montana winning the rings versus the amazing talents of Marino and Elway. 

[grizmo78]

5 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Similar to more than a few discussions had in the 80/90's, but then it was Montana winning the rings versus the amazing talents of Marino and Elway. 

You can even see it now in the NBA too with Michael Jordan and his 7 championships vs Lebron and his current 4. 

[BroncoBruin]

12 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I think you are just upset that someone is criticizing the "great" Tom Brady. A lot of fans have gotten this false idea that he is uncriticizable, which is ridiculous.

No, Brady criticism is fine. I enjoy the nuance of these kind of things. I’m not interested in “the bad refs always help Tom”. That’s the kind of nonsense I expect to hear from children. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[BroncoBruin]

8 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Similar to more than a few discussions had in the 80/90's, but then it was Montana winning the rings versus the amazing talents of Marino and Elway. 

This is why I think Mahomes has a chance to find some consensus in the future if he can keep this up. He will bridge the gap between fans who want to count rings to define greatness, and fans who judge purely on ability. He’s going to win several Super Bowls, will have all the crazy numbers and pass the “wow” test. 

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

This is why I think Mahomes has a chance to find some consensus in the future if he can keep this up. He will bridge the gap between fans who want to count rings to define greatness, and fans who judge purely on ability. He’s going to win several Super Bowls, will have all the crazy numbers and pass the “wow” test. 

It'll be fun to watch. To me, the best QB debate has always been fascinating. So many factors and nuances. Physical attributes, mental, team situation, coaching............ It's kind of endless. 

I remember listening to a panel discussion back in the 80's. The questions were 1) if you had just one game to win who would be your QB? and the 2nd: If you had one final drive to win a SB who would be your QB.

The answers were different and almost unanimous. Montana for the first and Elway for the second. 

Or, how to build the perfect QB. Put Marino,s brain in Elways body, but keeping Elways competitiveness. 

It's not hard to see Mahomes being the combination of the best traits. His team situation and coaching have been as good as you can get, he's incredibly gifted physically. Only time will tell if he's got the drive or "it" factor to raise the level of play of everyone around him ala Brady. 

This kid will be incredibly fun to watch for the next decade or so.

 

 

[7DnBrnc53]

15 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

No, Brady criticism is fine. I enjoy the nuance of these kind of things. I’m not interested in “the bad refs always help Tom”. That’s the kind of nonsense I expect to hear from children. 

There are a lot of fans out there that don't seem to like him being criticized. I said on another forum that he isn't as elite as you think because he only puts up great stats with great talent (compare his 2006 numbers to 07, for example), and someone said that they were sick of all the Tom Brady hate.

It seems that QB's with a lot of rings (Brady and Montana) are above reproach in the eyes of the majority of fans. They put rings above everything, which is silly because it's a team game. And, then, the contributions of Elway are downplayed because he didn't win the SB and have the sexy numbers in the 80's (the NE fans in the General Discussion section are an example. They always criticize Elway when I criticize Brady). Elway was the whole team in the 80's. Not sure that Brady ever has been.

[germ-x]

Brady isn’t even in the conversation of being the best football player of all time.  HE IS THE BEST FOOTBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME.  

When comparing Brady’s greatness, I don’t think it’s even fair to compare him to other NFL players.  Mahomes currently is the only one with even a shot at eclipsing what Brady has, but is a decade+ away from even being in that category and Brady isn’t done.

Talking about Brady in comparison to other football players is a waste of time.  There isn’t a player even close to his dominance.  There are only 2 other professional athletes Brady is comparable to when it comes to greatness and it’s is Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods (and I don’t follow hockey or baseball close enough to have an opinion).

Not surprisingly all 3 of them have a work ethic, competitiveness, and desire to win that is unmatched.  They’re alphas that just know how to get it done in the biggest moments and elevate teams.

If I had to rank them, It’d be Tiger Woods, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan.  I am fully willing to listen to arguments on that, but this is my thought process.  Tiger has no one to rely on.  It’s him.  He can’t have a good supporting cast around him.  It’s just him.  The argument I can see against it is he basically gets 4 SBs/NBA championships a year, basically more opportunities.  I have Brady 2 because in the NFL you can’t play in a series of games or get 4 opportunities at a championship.  The argument against is that the NFL is the biggest team sport in all of sports.  I have Jordan 3 because of the playoff series aspect and I really don’t see an argument against Jordan being 3 unless one wants to argue building a brand....which even then he’s at best #2 behind Woods.