Random Thoughts

[BroncoBruin]

49 minutes ago, Royal_VT said:

Get this misplaced Tyrod slander out of here! Team would have been 2-0 going into last night if it weren't for their kicker. I am not sure Baker would have been able to tie the Steelers week one...

Tyrod looked like crap last night, but the playcalling and line were abysmal with him in there. Baker definitely looked great, and made many throws that Tyrod is not capable of.

Really, you don't think Baker could have done better than 15/40 with a horrible INT while driving for a game winning FG? I don't hate Tyrod, but he has been really, really bad. He has had a nice career all things considered and will make a solid spot starter around the league. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Royal_VT said:

Get this misplaced Tyrod slander out of here! Team would have been 2-0 going into last night if it weren't for their kicker. I am not sure Baker would have been able to tie the Steelers week one...

Tyrod looked like crap last night, but the playcalling and line were abysmal with him in there. Baker definitely looked great, and made many throws that Tyrod is not capable of.

There’s a crazy stat floating out there - CLE had the ball inside midfield the most times in week 1-2.  That O really underperformed the first 2 weeks  

That’s on Tyrod’s conservative don’t-turn-it-over-at-all-costs play and accuracy issues.  If you are on a great loaded team with an elite D and strong run game it can work.  But in games between evenly matched or closely matched teams it often is the killer.   

Last night Tyrod was the reason why CLE would have lost.  3x Callaway had the D beat by 3-4 yards and 2x Taylor was late / underthrew him.  And 1x he just passed up on the throw.   2x with Landry and 1x with Callaway he just whiffed in the throw for first downs.   He was downright brutal.   

The Browns would have been 2-0 with a better K.  But Tyrod was masking how good that D’a been.  And the fact the coaching staff didn’t realize this and give Baker even some snaps with the 1’s shows a lack of awareness that’s astounding (same way they didn’t realize the K was playing hurt week 1-2 - after Week 1 it’s one of those automatic Q’s to check on).   It kinda speaks to how inept Hue really is. 

Hue’s typical lines last night...

best reply coming up...

LOL 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

39 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I agree, in 99% of situations.  I have no idea why Rosen isn’t starting over Bradford right now.  The only outlier I can see to this is the Bills.  That OL is so damn bad, Allen needed some development coming in, but he’s just going to get destroyed all season and I don’t think it’s going to be beneficial for him in the future.  I’d have let him sit on the bench most of the season, get some development/learn the NFL and then spent the off-season making improving the OL before throwing him to the wolves.

Fair point regarding Buffalo, and they've compounded this mess by not keeping McCarron IMO. AJ would have actually been a good resource for Allen with all his experience. Peterman can't tell Allen anything. Peterman must really be a savant in the meetings for the coaches to value him. 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

I agree, in 99% of situations.  I have no idea why Rosen isn’t starting over Bradford right now.  The only outlier I can see to this is the Bills.  That OL is so damn bad, Allen needed some development coming in, but he’s just going to get destroyed all season and I don’t think it’s going to be beneficial for him in the future.  I’d have let him sit on the bench most of the season, get some development/learn the NFL and then spent the off-season making improving the OL before throwing him to the wolves.

 

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Fair point regarding Buffalo, and they've compounded this mess by not keeping McCarron IMO. AJ would have actually been a good resource for Allen with all his experience. Peterman can't tell Allen anything. Peterman must really be a savant in the meetings for the coaches to value him. 

FWIW, I agree 100 percent on BUF - there's no OL, and no players who can separate, either.  And the D is old, so they get worn out as the O doesn't stay on the field - which leads to big leads given up.  It's a perfect storm to not have a raw QB play on the field.

Rosen is the complete opposite, he's ready to play. But the one good reason to let him sit is that ARI OL is just as awful as BUF is - and so Bradford is literally being paid $20M to take all the punishment until he gets hurt, or the OL plays well enough to think that Rosen won't get killed.   Now, I think I'd have paid less $ for a lower stopgap, but that's the reasoning (and that's purely hindsight on Bradford, at 1.15 ARI could have easily ended up with Lamar or Allen as the only QB left, and needed to go with vet QB all year long).    I agree with the premise that with polished QB's, you let them get used to NFL speed.  But only if the OL won't get them absolutely murdered.  TBH, I think that's Rosen's only risk I see - he's even more polished that Mayfield looked, and way ahead of Darnold.

Re: Darnold, as bad as he was last night, it was 4 days of prep, on the road, vs. an elite pass rush (yes, CLE is that good on D, Garrett & Ogujoni were holy terrors last night - and they were missing Ogbah, to boot).   And worse, the NYJ OC called a horrific game plan once they had the 14-0 lead, it was run/run, 3rd and long.   You can't do that to a rookie QB.  Naturally, the overreaction take is that Darnold isn't that good - he actually has shown really well, everything that says he should have been the 1.1 pick (and like most rookies, including Mayfield, as D's get film on them, they will struggle without help from their supporting cast - we're seeing that now with Darnold, Enunwa & the RB's were all he had, the OL got massacred, no other TE's and WR's could get free).  Give him CLE's O and D, and he'd soar to even greater heights than Mayfield will IMO in the futrue.  It's not all bad in NYJ, they're headed the right way - but OMG, the OC playcalling up 14-0 was brutal.  That's exhibit A on how to throw him to the wolves. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Broncofan

[jsthomp2007]

Think the Broncos should trade for Leveon Bell and Earl Thomas.  

[Broncofan]

Not a Rockies fan, but I can't help but root for what they've overcome, after their bullpen imploded during the dog days, and going neck-and-neck with the big-budget Dodgers, easy to root for the 'dog in MLB, given how uneven the cap makes the playing field, and if not the NL West crown, then a WC spot up for grabs.

Seems like fate is smiling in their direction, a W today puts them 1.5 games up with 4 to play (and only 3 for STL) for the WC.  3 more W's/STL L's and they are in the WC at worst, and of course, in the thick of it with the Dodgers, the W temporarily ties them for the NL West crown (LAD still playing tonight, then off tomorrow, COL plays tomorrow).   Look at this play for STL, about to tie the game up in the bottom of the 8th...wow.

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

Watching the 49ers vs Chargers.  My god these roughing the passer calls are ridiculous.  Ingram just called for roughing the passer when he hit Beathard and Beathard still had the ball in his hands.  He didn’t lift him or anything, just hit him and went through.  It’s so bad.  It’s to the point pass rushers have to just try and arm tackle.

I get protecting QBs, they drive the league, but to make them almost unhittable will be one of many reasons I don’t think the NFL will be watchable or even relevant in 5-10 years.

On that note, a friend of mine that’s a lower level sports agent has slowly transitioned from the NFL to the NBA because according to him long term that’s the future of prime time sports in this country.

[germ-x]

Remember when people in this forum were banging the table for Kyle Shanahan?....lol...looks as inept as Joseph as an HC.

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

The Rockies should just forfeit at this point and get on the plane. I used to love Nolan, but he's as overrated as they come offensively. Over the past month and a half, he's been god awful.

[lomaxgrUK]

I never realised until having a proper look just how few teams are going to be after a QB next year. I've done a really quick list of how the draft order may look, and there really aren't any teams who need a QB who project to be picking early, sans the Giants. Please don't pick apart my ordering unless you feel a QB needy team will be ahead of us ...

Draft Pick	Team	2019 QB Need?
1	Arizona Cardinals	No
2	Buffalo Bills	No
3	San Francisco 49ers	No
4	Indianapolis Colts	No
5	New York Giants	Yes
6	New York Jets	No
7	Cleveland Browns	No
8	Oakland Raiders	No
9	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Maybe
10	Denver Broncos	Yes
11	Dallas Cowboys	Maybe
12	Houston Texans	No
13	Los Angeles Chargers	Maybe
14	Miami Dolphins	Maybe
15	Pittsburgh Steelers	Yes
16	Seattle Seahawks	No
17	Carolina Panthers	No
18	Oakland Raiders (via Chicago Bears)	No
19	Detroit Lions	No
20	Tennessee Titans	Maybe
21	Washington Redskins	Maybe
22	Atlanta Falcons	No
23	Baltimore Ravens	No
24	Cincinnati Bengals	Maybe
25	Green Bay Packers	No
26	Minnesota Vikings	No
27	New England Patriots	Maybe
28	Philadelphia Eagles	No
29	Jacksonville Jaguars	Maybe
30	Green Bay Packers (via New Orleans Saints)	Maybe
31	Kansas City Chiefs	No
32	Los Angeles Rams	No

[Broncofan]

Nice list @lomaxgrUK.    While it looks hopeful, the issues with next year's draft and finding QBOTF Rd1  are 3-fold:

1.  The top-end talent isn't nearly as polished as last year.    Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield had top-of-draft grades for possible 1.1 overall (not just best QB) for a far more extended period than anyone here (Rosen & Darnold since their 2016 season ended).  That's always a huge concern, that a weak class is driving up the value of the #1/#2 guy..rather than the guy being a true, franchise-level QB.   Which raises the risk of the top QB's being forced picks rather than true top-end franchise talent (Bortles/Locker types).   There's a ton of depth of developmental guys...top-end guys, not so much.   All 3 of those guys taken aearly this year, and I'd actually say maybe Lamar/Allen, probably would have all gone 1st QB in this year's upcoming class (more importantly, none of the 2019 guys I'd probably take ahead of anyone but Allen).     

2.  NYG is a clear yes for teams ahead of us...but don't discount OAK.   Chucky (Gruden) has made it clear he's not married to prior establishment players, and his throwing Carr under the bus for the 0-3 start was a very clear message.   The Raiders can get out of Carr's contract with a very affordable cap hit (7.5M) this year.   Armed with 2 picks in Rd1, I wouldn't be shocked at all if Carr is let go (or traded to a team that can't pick high).    I think it would be a huge mistake for a team that's talent-poor overall, but Gruden's track record here is pretty clear, he'll go with "his guy" if he feels that's his move to make.

3.  As we saw with HOU/KC 2 years ago, if there's a huge need, and a class that's pretty iffy - teams will pay to move up.    Which is fine if there's a guy worth moving up for - but that gets back to #1.

I do think the opportunity for us to get a Rd2-3 guy at value works, though, for the reasons you cited.   I generally am not a fan of spending a developmental pick on QB then, but for 2019, that's more where the QB value lies (really weird year than in years gone by).   

Really, we want Chad Kelly to show something this year - because then we could hit OL and add DL/LB help as BPA (it's a good class for LT potential players, should be near the BPA lists in mid-high teens so we can match true BPA with need perfectly this year - but only if Elway doesn't feel compelled to reach for QB...which is where Kelly becomes crucial).   Spending a Rd1 pick in 2019 on QB just doesn't seem like it will yield a franchise guy for the value....which is ironic, given we had that situation in 2018...but passed, all for Case freakin' Keenum.  SMH.

 

P.S.  Depressing factoid - OAK has a 7.5M 2019 dead cap hit if they release Derek Carr.   We have a 10M cap hit to release Keenum.    Dear god, that decision is coming back to haunt us so early.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Broncofan

[champ11]

Nuggets are back guys. Jump on the bandwagon while you still can

[Royal_VT]

16 hours ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

The Rockies should just forfeit at this point and get on the plane. I used to love Nolan, but he's as overrated as they come offensively. Over the past month and a half, he's been god awful.

What the heck lol, this was worse than my Tyrod take last week!

[Royal_VT]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Nice list @lomaxgrUK.    While it looks hopeful, the issues with next year's draft and finding QBOTF Rd1  are 3-fold:

1.  The top-end talent isn't nearly as polished as last year.    Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield had top-of-draft grades for possible 1.1 overall (not just best QB) for a far more extended period than anyone here (Rosen & Darnold since their 2016 season ended).  That's always a huge concern, that a weak class is driving up the value of the #1/#2 guy..rather than the guy being a true, franchise-level QB.   Which raises the risk of the top QB's being forced picks rather than true top-end franchise talent (Bortles/Locker types).   There's a ton of depth of developmental guys...top-end guys, not so much.   All 3 of those guys taken aearly this year, and I'd actually say maybe Lamar/Allen, probably would have all gone 1st QB in this year's upcoming class (more importantly, none of the 2019 guys I'd probably take ahead of anyone but Allen).     

2.  NYG is a clear yes for teams ahead of us...but don't discount OAK.   Chucky (Gruden) has made it clear he's not married to prior establishment players, and his throwing Carr under the bus for the 0-3 start was a very clear message.   The Raiders can get out of Carr's contract with a very affordable cap hit (7.5M) this year.   Armed with 2 picks in Rd1, I wouldn't be shocked at all if Carr is let go (or traded to a team that can't pick high).    I think it would be a huge mistake for a team that's talent-poor overall, but Gruden's track record here is pretty clear, he'll go with "his guy" if he feels that's his move to make.

3.  As we saw with HOU/KC 2 years ago, if there's a huge need, and a class that's pretty iffy - teams will pay to move up.    Which is fine if there's a guy worth moving up for - but that gets back to #1.

I do think the opportunity for us to get a Rd2-3 guy at value works, though, for the reasons you cited.   I generally am not a fan of spending a developmental pick on QB then, but for 2019, that's more where the QB value lies (really weird year than in years gone by).   

Really, we want Chad Kelly to show something this year - because then we could hit OL and add DL/LB help as BPA (it's a good class for LT potential players, should be near the BPA lists in mid-high teens so we can match true BPA with need perfectly this year - but only if Elway doesn't feel compelled to reach for QB...which is where Kelly becomes crucial).   Spending a Rd1 pick in 2019 on QB just doesn't seem like it will yield a franchise guy for the value....which is ironic, given we had that situation in 2018...but passed, all for Case freakin' Keenum.  SMH.

 

P.S.  Depressing factoid - OAK has a 7.5M 2019 dead cap hit if they release Derek Carr.   We have a 10M cap hit to release Keenum.    Dear god, that decision is coming back to haunt us so early.

I do not understand your logic in pointing out the flaws of the 2019 draft class and then suggesting we take a Rd2-3 QB. If a guy is a franchise QB he is worth any 1st rounder, if a guy isn't a franchise QB he isn't worth a 2nd or 3rd. What kind of value is there in taking a below average QB there? 

Also great list Lomax, it is such a necessary exercise to see who would really draft a QB. I would throw a 'Maybe' on the Colts, and 'Yes' on Chargers/Patriots.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Royal_VT said:

I do not understand your logic in pointing out the flaws of the 2019 draft class and then suggesting we take a Rd2-3 QB. If a guy is a franchise QB he is worth any 1st rounder, if a guy isn't a franchise QB he isn't worth a 2nd or 3rd. What kind of value is there in taking a below average QB there? 

Also great list Lomax, it is such a necessary exercise to see who would really draft a QB. I would throw a 'Maybe' on the Colts, and 'Yes' on Chargers/Patriots.

The strength of the 2019 draft class are developmental guys.  Those guys sadly do require Day 2 picks in this day and age.    The Mason Rudolphs / Kyle Lauretta’s of the world.   Lauletta fell to Rd4 because of how deep the 2018 class was.   I don’t see even that level of developmental talent that interests me surviving to Rd4 this year given the lack of top end talent. 

Personally I’d pass on the 2019 class entirely as the value likely won’t be there - why I hope Kelly shows some hope.   But if Kelly doesn’t show the hope though the far bigger mistake is to take a guy who’s not a franchise guy in Rd1 - that’s a near lock at this point as we aren’t likely the top or even 2nd team on the draft QB board.     If Kelly isn’t the guy then we have to recognize Elway isn’t passing on QB.  

I don’t see the top 2 guys out of whoever emerges as worthy of the franchise label...nor being available (because need is going to drive to their draft spot even though they won’t be nearly as good as the top 3 last year).

We absolutely need QB but a reach for rd 1 for a guy who’s not a franchise guy is a killer.   What hurts is we had that opp in 2018 and passed on the real deal franchise ceiling guy.   I hope Kelly shows enough to avoid Elway pulling the trifecta killer - gamble / whiff on Lynch, pass on the 2018 class with the most top end talent in years out of fear / misguided belief in Keenum, then repeat the bad reach for a guy who isn’t a franchise level talent in Rd1 because we’re back to desperation and bad QB evaluation.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Broncofan