Around the NFL II - Even NFLier

[nayad]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

And to point out Goodwin and Trent Taylor as alternatives to Green due to injuries is a very curious point to make.

You're manipulating my point a bit here but its okay. Green will cost assets that I feel is too costly given his age/injuries/contract status. Yes Taylor has the injuries already but he doesnt cost any assets. Goodwin has even less injury concerns and also under contract.  I've seen both succeed in this scheme so thats why if nothing happens I still feel good about contending for a SB. I will say I'd be good with a 4th for Green if the Bengals are open to the Demaryius Thomas type trade. 

To the other suggestions I made I think the NFL is in a place similar to the NBA where even if a team doesnt want to trade a guy they have to consider it if they are disgruntled - hence Allen and Diggs. Its wishful thinking and likely not gonna happen but I'd bet both teams take calls at the deadline.

Anderson is really good and might be cheap enough that it doesnt destroy our future drafts, he does have a sketchy past but I believe they're resolved and over a year old though I'm not completely in the loop so i could be wrong. worst case he's only in the building for the remainder of the season and we get a comp pick when he bounces elsewhere. I'm sure there are more guys i'm omitting that could contribute like @Forge mentioned in Sanders. I dont think the 49ers need to panic and trade for help at receiver, make the good value trade or sit back...we're 5-0.  

[y2lamanaki]

28 minutes ago, nayad said:

You're manipulating my point a bit here but its okay. Green will cost assets that I feel is too costly given his age/injuries/contract status. Yes Taylor has the injuries already but he doesnt cost any assets. Goodwin has even less injury concerns and also under contract.  I've seen both succeed in this scheme so thats why if nothing happens I still feel good about contending for a SB. I will say I'd be good with a 4th for Green if the Bengals are open to the Demaryius Thomas type trade. 

To the other suggestions I made I think the NFL is in a place similar to the NBA where even if a team doesnt want to trade a guy they have to consider it if they are disgruntled - hence Allen and Diggs. Its wishful thinking and likely not gonna happen but I'd bet both teams take calls at the deadline.

Anderson is really good and might be cheap enough that it doesnt destroy our future drafts, he does have a sketchy past but I believe they're resolved and over a year old though I'm not completely in the loop so i could be wrong. worst case he's only in the building for the remainder of the season and we get a comp pick when he bounces elsewhere. I'm sure there are more guys i'm omitting that could contribute like @Forge mentioned in Sanders. I dont think the 49ers need to panic and trade for help at receiver, make the good value trade or sit back...we're 5-0.  

You, @Forge, and I are definitely on the same page with Sanders. Ultimately, I would be thrilled if we went in that direction due to the fact that he would have a built-in familiarity with the system. 

And it's not really a panic move to trade for a player as consistently great as AJ Green when your current starters wouldn't even necessarily be #2 receivers on a lot of playoff teams. Real talk for a minute, AJ Green's worst year in 9 games is still more productive than Trent Taylor's 3-year career's combined numbers, and is better than all but one Goodwin season. It's also better than what Goodwin is projected to get in 16 games this year. And you point to Trent Taylor in 2017, but Trent Taylor in 2018 had only 7 receptions for 52 yards in 3 games with Garoppolo. 

If New England gave Cincinnati a 3rd and future 2nd for AJ Green, nobody would consider that a panic move either. It's merely a good move that contenders tend to make to shore up their roster's weaknesses before a championship run. I mean obviously if we can do a 4th, then obviously do it. But AJ Green is worth more than that. Let's not pretend that Green and D. Thomas are the same type of receiver. Thomas had great numbers under Peyton Manning which did tend to happen with Manning's receivers. 

WR is an obvious need. Yes we are 5-0 and that is wonderful. It doesn't mean we are without needs, though. I understand the hesitancy of wanting to trade for a player coming off of injury, but I don't share in it.

[GW21]

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

If you would argue not, kindly point me in the direction of the other active receivers who have made 7 straight Pro Bowls in their career. If it's easier, here is the full list:

Larry Fitzgerald

I’m not doubting his talent in any fashion, he’s one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL when he’s on the field. I also don’t doubt that fans, players, and coaches see that which is why he is consistently in the pro bowl. What I’m saying is that you can not trust him to be on the field consistently. It doesn’t matter if you have a top 5 receiver in the NFL if he’s standing on the sidelines. Maybe I gave the wrong impression that I don’t want him at all, which is not the case, but I’m not ready to give up picks in the first three rounds in consecutive years to do it. I could be sold on two threes, but a second next year and a three this year when were already short our second seems a bit rich. If the price is right, hell yeah, pull the trigger; but much like what @Forge said when I suggested that we should be in on OJ Howard, we are going to need our picks moving forward. I wouldn’t pay the price suggested of a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year for Howard either and he’s 24 and under team control for another couple years. I don’t think we move on either of them and would be FAR from upset to bring in either, but I definitely don’t want to give up too much. To be clear, I’m not comparing Green to Howard I’m terms of talent as that is no comparison. I am comparing to guys that are potentially on the trade block.

[N4L]

11 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

11 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I agree that we don’t want to give away though draft capital for short term rentals. I also want to point out that this, to me, is not a reaction to Ramsey; this is a reaction to me reading that OJ Howard was on the block. I loved Howard coming out, and I’m not sure of his value at this point, but if we could snag him for a third or a combo of future mid-round picks I’d be all for it. Even if it turns out that we lose him in free agency after 2021, we’d probably get a third round comp pick back at that point. The fact is that OJ has flashed, but hasn’t yet put together a resume that would warrant a huge contract. I think under Shanahan he would which would lead to the above situation, but if he just remains where he is at now we’d have the best #2 TE in the NFL and would be able to resign him. 

Before I get ripped apart on the bolded, do I think he would get a big contract on the open market today? Absolutely. He also has yet to put together a full 16 game slate in his first two year though as well. My point remains, if we could get him for the value I suggested, it would be a win win for all parties involved. We’d get a good player for a couple of years who we could get a comp pick out of or even someone we may be able to flip for higher value, or if he doesn’t reach the hights I expected he would, the. We’d be able to resign him. Doubt it happens, but I’d be happy if it did. All in all I agree with @Forge sentiment of building through the draft, but if the value is there I think we need to make a move as well.

I don't think they would trade him for a 3rd. I think they want a 1st for him if they are going to trade him.

I would rather just draft another TE. It was actually high on my wishlist last offseason, and was excited about having a TE to find holes in zone coverages while being a big body to catch touchdowns when we drafted Kaden Smith... who is now on the giants.

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, N4L said:

I don't think they would trade him for a 3rd. I think they want a 1st for him if they are going to trade him.

 

They're never going to get that. At best, they maybe get a late second from a team like New England. He has 1.5 years on his rookie deal before that salary hits real stuff. They are the ones who put him on the market is my understanding, which decreases his value immediately. He doesn't seem to be a fit for what Arians wants to do (and he's never used tight ends). Howard has flashed, but also has injuries, and some inconsistent play. Late second / third round pick is what I think they can expect back. Maybe someone throws in a late round conditional or some sort based on supply / demand 

[Aussie9er]

I was already so happy we Picked Mike McGlinchey and moved on from Trent Brown even with his subpar play this year. Especially now with Brown's with ex's suing him for domestic violence our team finally seems to have gotten rid of all the knuckleheads and just playing good winning football with no distractions. 

[straighthate]

1 hour ago, Aussie9er said:

I was already so happy we Picked Mike McGlinchey and moved on from Trent Brown even with his subpar play this year. Especially now with Brown's with ex's suing him for domestic violence our team finally seems to have gotten rid of all the knuckleheads and just playing good winning football with no distractions. 

That’s the type of comment that is typically followed by a news story like Jimmy G just got caught with his pants down in an adult theatre and Nick Bosa just got caught peddling rocks. 
 

Let’s not ask to jinx this so far amazing season. 

[nayad]

5 hours ago, N4L said:

I don't think they would trade him for a 3rd. I think they want a 1st for him if they are going to trade him.

I would rather just draft another TE. It was actually high on my wishlist last offseason, and was excited about having a TE to find holes in zone coverages while being a big body to catch touchdowns when we drafted Kaden Smith... who is now on the giants.

What if Delainie Walker were available? Titians might find themselves tanking for a QB after this QB change and 35 year old delanie he can probably even work as a backup to Juice in situations like the one were in with him out 4-6 weeks. 

[N4L]

4 minutes ago, nayad said:

What if Delainie Walker were available? Titians might find themselves tanking for a QB after this QB change and 35 year old delanie he can probably even work as a backup to Juice in situations like the one were in with him out 4-6 weeks. 

He would be a perfect fit here. Let's pull the trigger

[y2lamanaki]

10 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I’m not doubting his talent in any fashion, he’s one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL when he’s on the field. I also don’t doubt that fans, players, and coaches see that which is why he is consistently in the pro bowl. What I’m saying is that you can not trust him to be on the field consistently. It doesn’t matter if you have a top 5 receiver in the NFL if he’s standing on the sidelines. Maybe I gave the wrong impression that I don’t want him at all, which is not the case, but I’m not ready to give up picks in the first three rounds in consecutive years to do it. I could be sold on two threes, but a second next year and a three this year when were already short our second seems a bit rich. If the price is right, hell yeah, pull the trigger; but much like what @Forge said when I suggested that we should be in on OJ Howard, we are going to need our picks moving forward. I wouldn’t pay the price suggested of a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year for Howard either and he’s 24 and under team control for another couple years. I don’t think we move on either of them and would be FAR from upset to bring in either, but I definitely don’t want to give up too much. To be clear, I’m not comparing Green to Howard I’m terms of talent as that is no comparison. I am comparing to guys that are potentially on the trade block.

I get what you are saying about the injuries. For me, if he passes a physical, that's a non-issue. And just for comparison's sake his ability to stay on the field is roughly equivalent to Arik Armstead's ability to stay on the field, as Green has missed exactly one more game than Armstead has since Armstead came into the league in 2015. It's not like he has the same nagging type of injuries that are likely to continue recurring. 

As for compensation, you are likely giving up a near compensatory 3rd (which you might essentially regain if Green doesn't re-sign), which is right in line with where we picked Beathard and exactly where we picked Tarvarius Moore. And the future 2nd is likely to be near a 3rd anyway as well. If you can be sold on two thirds, there should be little reason not to give up a late 2nd. It's not like you are selecting nobody with those picks - you are getting a top tier wide receiver. I mean right now, the value of the two picks is the equivalent of trading up from pick 63 to get to pick 50 to pick a player with 7 straight Pro Bowls worth of talent who might only stick around a few years and has an injury history. It's basically less than what we gave up to get Dante Pettis. And with no offense meant to Pettis, 31 year old AJ Green with an injury history > current Dante Pettis. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Do it Lynch!!! 

[Forge]

4 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Do it Lynch!!! 

I'm not really sure what he means there. 

Is he trying to suggest that AJ Green is trying to force his way out? 

[Chrissooner49er]

15 hours ago, N4L said:

I don't think they would trade him for a 3rd. I think they want a 1st for him if they are going to trade him.

I would rather just draft another TE. It was actually high on my wishlist last offseason, and was excited about having a TE to find holes in zone coverages while being a big body to catch touchdowns when we drafted Kaden Smith... who is now on the giants.

That is so frustrating to me. Loved the pick and really liked what I saw from him in preseason. Just have to pick one all over again next year. Smh

[Forge]

42 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

That is so frustrating to me. Loved the pick and really liked what I saw from him in preseason. Just have to pick one all over again next year. Smh

I'm not going to get too bummed out about it. He couldn't prove himself more valuable as a pass catcher than Ross Dwelley, or more valuable all around than Levine Toilolo and was a late round pick. If he couldn't earn his spot, he couldn't earn his spot. 

[y2lamanaki]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

I'm not going to get too bummed out about it. He couldn't prove himself more valuable as a pass catcher than Ross Dwelley, or more valuable all around than Levine Toilolo and was a late round pick. If he couldn't earn his spot, he couldn't earn his spot. 

I really love this forum. This isn't me being facetious either. I love how often we have complained about letting go of late round picks over the years.