rudyZ Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: This isn't basketball. The 'GOAT' talk in football just ludicrous. There are soooooo many tangible factors that go into a single player's success in football, it's incomparable to any sport. It truly is a team game. Alot of other players roles, skill sets, as well as coaching/scheme figures into way too much of a individuals success or lack thereof. Brady's probably done more with less in terms of his physical gifts, as well as not playing with any notable WRs besides Moss, than anybody I've ever seen. But I could never call him the 'GOAT' of QBs. But isn't Jerry Rice the GOAT also? Is that not allowed anymore as well? The GOAT talk is from fans for fans. It doesn't matter that it is not empirically supported. Arguments can be made against all GOATs, if we choose to do it. Jordan won all these titles, but Lebron won titles with multiple teams, including a rather average Cavaliers team. Wayne Gretzky played with other all-time greats, at a time goalies weighed 150lbs, wore much less padding, didn't cover the bottom of the net, etc. Babe Ruth hit all those homeruns, but pitchers weren't all mutants throwing 100mph heat. Kevin Martin is a great curler, but he has had incredible teammates sweeping for him (and let's not forget the steroids scandal). GOAT or not, the legend of Tom Brady will be hard to surpass. So much success, in the salary cap era. Now, if we're discussing Belichek as the GOAT of coaching, will be shoot him down saying he had the GOAT QB? Doesn't really deserve all the accolades? Legendary, GOAT, doesn't matter to me. I won't be arguing against either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 55 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Good for you. Myself and the majority of the world will gladly call him the GOAT of QBs. I seriously doubt the majority of the world agrees with you but hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: I seriously doubt the majority of the world agrees with you but hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night.... Majority of those that watch the NFL? They absolutely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Good for you. Myself and the majority of the world will gladly call him the GOAT of QBs. Argumentum ad populum approach eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, PapaShogun said: Argumentum ad populum approach eh? Populum word is out of my vocabulary. I need @Chrissooner49er to help me here. What does this word mean??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Populum word is out of my vocabulary. I need @Chrissooner49er to help me here. What does this word mean??? It's an argumentative fallacy. Just means that you're basing your argument on what you think the majority of people believe, and therefore you are right because thats what the majority believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Forge said: It's an argumentative fallacy. Just means that you're basing your argument on what you think the majority of people believe, and therefore you are right because thats what the majority believes. So he's basically saying I am right???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, Forge said: It's an argumentative fallacy. Just means that you're basing your argument on what you think the majority of people believe, and therefore you are right because thats what the majority believes. A near majority of my parents love me, therefore I'm great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 58 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: So he's basically saying I am right???? No. More like the argument is flawed because you mistakenly believe that the majority of people believe the same thing. However, I didn't know there were still people who still are holding onto the delusion that Brady isn't the greatest QB ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: No. More like the argument is flawed because you mistakenly believe that the majority of people believe the same thing. However, I didn't know there were still people who still are holding onto the delusion that Brady isn't the greatest QB ever. I should have worded it better saying majority of football fans. Technically, majority of the world doesn't even watch football nor know the rules. I mean there still seems to be those like 757 that are NOT of the opinion of Brady being the greatest. Couldn't be me though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: So he's basically saying I am right???? No. The opposition. Your argument is a logical fallacy. Belief isn't proof, no matter if many, many people believe in something. Edited January 22, 2019 by PapaShogun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I wonder what Garoppolo thinks about his old team continuing to win playoff games. You would think it would make him focus Also, I bet the Patriots franchise tag Trent Brown this offseason. I saw him maul a couple people in the run game. He is an incredible tackle. Still cant help but think it was a makeup trade for garoppolo Come on Boston! Beat LA one more time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 9:30 PM, J-ALL-DAY said: I get so sick and tired of people still saying Joe Montana is the GOAT. Like please, just let it go at this point. Brady is pretty much Jordan status GOAT at this point. And dude will probably make and win two more SBs lol. And I get so sick and tired of people calling Brady the GOAT. He is given special treatment, even among QBs. The "roughing" that wasn't is a perfect example. The NFL today is so soft it is incomparable to what Montana played in. The refs and rules baby these QBs. What would Joe have accomplished with such rules?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said: And I get so sick and tired of people calling Brady the GOAT. He is given special treatment, even among QBs. The "roughing" that wasn't is a perfect example. The NFL today is so soft it is incomparable to what Montana played in. The refs and rules baby these QBs. What would Joe have accomplished with such rules?! To me, this is irrelevant. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc. all played under the same rules, but none of them have played in 9 Super Bowls like Brady. No franchise (other than the Pats, obviously) has been to that many. Brady's dominance is simply unmatched, even with our own Joe Montana and Steve Young combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: And I get so sick and tired of people calling Brady the GOAT. He is given special treatment, even among QBs. The "roughing" that wasn't is a perfect example. The NFL today is so soft it is incomparable to what Montana played in. The refs and rules baby these QBs. What would Joe have accomplished with such rules?! He's really not given special treatment. That was one bad call. Historically, he hasn't gotten special treatment with RTP calls. He's lead the league in RTP calls once in the last 10 years (2009), finished second once (2015). On a per game basis, he averages 0.16 rtp calls per game, which is lower than most of the league. Brees, Rodgers, Fitzpatrick, Bradford, Cousins, Tannehill, Mariota, Palmer, Luck, Cutler, etc. He's tied with guys like Alex Smith and Dak and his RTP calls per 100 attempts is even lower than those guys. Also, the "what would joe have done in this generation" may not be applicable. I'm assuming that most people are bestowing GOAT status on Brady because of his winning dominance over other teams during his career. 9 super bowls with 5 wins? 13 conference championships, I think? And like Joe, he puts his best foot forward in the big game. He's got 4 super bowl MVPs, was absolutely great last year against the Eagles despite not winning it. Better playoff winning percentage than Joe. He has all the individual accolades he would need as well.. Dominance against your generational peers (both from a player and team perspective), isn't something that really needs to be differentiated on a generational basis. Brady has dominated his generation with regards to winning in a manner nobody has before, including Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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