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Trades?

cattleman78

By cattleman78
in Cleveland Browns

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, DawgX said:

We had a guy similar to him in Shelton, although not quite as good as Harrison. But those massive run-stuffing DTs don't "fit" what Gregg wants to do. ¬¬ Meanwhile our run defense has been atrocious this season after being dominant last year.

I don’t mind getting value for Shelton as I don’t think they planned to sign him long term, but I agree we need a legit run stopper.

If a big guy who defends the run well and requires a double team “doesn’t fit the scheme”, you’re running an asinine scheme.

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mistakey

mistakey

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30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t mind getting value for Shelton as I don’t think they planned to sign him long term, but I agree we need a legit run stopper.

If a big guy who defends the run well and requires a double team “doesn’t fit the scheme”, you’re running an asinine scheme.

i mean danny shelton isnt exactly playing that much or that well in NE... 0 TFL, 8 solo tackles, 1 QB hit, 1 game started

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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23 minutes ago, mistakey said:

i mean danny shelton isnt exactly playing that much or that well in NE... 0 TFL, 8 solo tackles, 1 QB hit, 1 game started

It’s a role that isn’t defined well by statistical accomplishments.  Guys like Casey Hampton made a number of Pro Bowls with pedestrian numbers.

It’s about having a guy who’s capable of stopping the run when it’s 3rd and 2.  A guy who requires a double team at the goalline, etc.  He doesn’t have to start, but having someone who can fill that role is essential to any good defense imo.

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buno67

buno67

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mistakey said:

i mean danny shelton isnt exactly playing that much or that well in NE... 0 TFL, 8 solo tackles, 1 QB hit, 1 game started

Exactly and NE is ranked 22nd in the league in adjusted yards ran between the guards. They give up like 4.75. League avg is 4.25 and the Browns are 3rd overall at 3.55. Browns just suck at stopping the run when it’s ran outside the guards

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buno67

buno67

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s a role that isn’t defined well by statistical accomplishments.  Guys like Casey Hampton made a number of Pro Bowls with pedestrian numbers.

It’s about having a guy who’s capable of stopping the run when it’s 3rd and 2.  A guy who requires a double team at the goalline, etc.  He doesn’t have to start, but having someone who can fill that role is essential to any good defense imo.

Literally the situation you are talking, about needing to stuff a 3rd and 2 type play. Football outsider has a stat for it called :Power plays which is  Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. The browns are ranked 13th in this category. NE is ranked 27th and they have that so called ideal DT for it that the Browns once had and could really utilize this year...

danny Shelton isn’t making a huge impact for them. If he was, he would be seeing a lot more snaps but you think if he was playing great he be playing in all those situations deemed as power players and that the Pats would have a lot more success in it and be better than 27th

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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28 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Literally the situation you are talking, about needing to stuff a 3rd and 2 type play. Football outsider has a stat for it called :Power plays which is  Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. The browns are ranked 13th in this category. NE is ranked 27th and they have that so called ideal DT for it that the Browns once had and could really utilize this year...

danny Shelton isn’t making a huge impact for them. If he was, he would be seeing a lot more snaps but you think if he was playing great he be playing in all those situations deemed as power players and that the Pats would have a lot more success in it and be better than 27th

I mean if we’re disregarding literally every other player on either front 7 then sure, great statistical comparison.

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buno67

buno67

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3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean if we’re disregarding literally every other player on either front 7 then sure, great statistical comparison.

just saying if Shelton was as good as you say, would he at least make the Pats ranked at least avg in that department, instead of being in the bottom 10. Hell even looking at the numbers from last year to this year. 

Last year, looking at the mid/guard rush defense ranking. The browns finished the year ranked 2nd at 3.49. They are currently 3rd at 3.55. You think if the Browns lost as great of an interior run defender, you would see more of a differential

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2017 (2017)

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl (2018)  

The biggest difference you can see from the analytics

Looking at the 2nd level stats and the open field stats, basically the LBs and DBs. in '17 the Browns were ranked 12th and 8th, this year in the same areas they are ranked 28th and 24th. The back 7 is killing the rush defense. Its not the secondary. They cant make plays in the ally and they struggle making the open field tackles 

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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58 minutes ago, buno67 said:

just saying if Shelton was as good as you say, would he at least make the Pats ranked at least avg in that department, instead of being in the bottom 10. Hell even looking at the numbers from last year to this year. 

Last year, looking at the mid/guard rush defense ranking. The browns finished the year ranked 2nd at 3.49. They are currently 3rd at 3.55. You think if the Browns lost as great of an interior run defender, you would see more of a differential

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2017 (2017)

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl (2018)  

The biggest difference you can see from the analytics

Looking at the 2nd level stats and the open field stats, basically the LBs and DBs. in '17 the Browns were ranked 12th and 8th, this year in the same areas they are ranked 28th and 24th. The back 7 is killing the rush defense. Its not the secondary. They cant make plays in the ally and they struggle making the open field tackles 

I’m not saying Shelton is anything other than a capable run stuffer and those guys have value. Ive never touted him as great or anything of the kind. I’ve repeated said I understand moving him considering the value received.

I also think getting a player like Snacks for a 5th would make this team better.  I think we’re better with Shelton at DT than without, regardless of numbers as those don’t account for a number of variables such as opponents, game situations, etc. 

Guys like Price, Smith, provide little to nothing while guys like Shelton can do positive things for any defense, albeit in a small and well defined role.

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