BroncoBruin Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Elway should have told VJ to shut up about things above his pay grade. Out of line to comment on the DT situation when he clearly knew nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I am sorry, but it's really easy to say "I wish they would just be men about it and tell me to my face". The fact is, no other team would do that. Why would you go to a guy and tell him we're trying to trade you, when it might not materialise and then you're stuck with a player that knows you wanted rid of him? You're living in cloud cuckooland if you think that is reality. People will criticise Vance for telling DT that the rumours aren't true and I get that. But what else is he honestly supposed to do? Like I said, it's just not a realistic option to actually tell a guy that we're trying to trade you (unless said player has asked to be traded). The longest tenured player on the team being traded was the talk of the lockerroom so he's not really got an option to say nothing. I understand DT's angle - 9 years for a team and they trade you. It's not nice. But it is what it is - we didn't handle it any different to how any other team would've in the NFL. Well, maybe the Patriots would've said absolutely nothing to DT and if he asked about it, he would've been told to get in his lane and play football. DT's comments about "that's what they do over there" were a bit rich too, given that we lost against KC at home in part thanks to him giving up on a route and not laying out for a ball (yes, I know it was a bad throw too). Still love you DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 MHR are carrying a report of Rod Smith interviewing DT - in it he says that the coaches aren't listening to the players - “If you want to be better, you’ve got to listen to your players. They’ve been playing for a long time,” Thomas said. “There were games I wanted to change stuff up on the field because I knew it would make us better. I used to do that with Peyton. The interview is worth a listen - https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/11/5/18067118/demaryius-thomas-gets-real-about-this-broncos-team-while-elway-stays-the-course-with-vance-joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrolljcmc Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I want Eric Bieniemy as HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 How is VJ still coaching this team? Get him out, quickly, before he needs his own security escort. The media is going to turn on him real quick...the players are quitting. Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Vance Joseph is the worst head coach in the history of the Denver Broncos, bar none. At least with Josh McDaniels we had the 6-0 run in 2009, Josh McDaniels the coach could somewhat blame Josh McDaniels the GM for giving himself a terrible roster to work with, whereas this guy is just a specialist in failing with a talented roster. After this season Joseph's head coaching record will read: 5-11, 5-11, fired. I think ultimately we'll win against the Browns at home in week 15 and win one of our two trips to the bay area which sandwich that game, but will lose to the Chargers twice and also to the Bengals, Steelers and the other trip to OAK/SF, not sure which. It's very clear from Demaryius Thomas's comments that Joseph isn't respected in the locker room and for that reason he should be replaced immediately for me and a temporary leader put in charge in the form of either of the coaches who have won a Lombardi trophy for the Denver Broncos, either Mike Shanahan or, more likely, Gary Kubiak. Musgrave and Woods would call the game and the interim HC would just be there to keep the locker room together and deal with the media. After the season, and I know @AnAngryAmerican won't like me saying this, but it's time to look at the hot co-ordinator route. It's become increasingly clear to me that a QB guru is needed to help young QBs take the next step, as we've seen with Sean McVay and to a lesser extent Matt Nagy. It's all very well to pick up a guy like this to be your co-ordinator but then he just gets poached away. I'd be looking at John DeFilippo or Pete Carmichael Jr to be the head coach and then possibly pair him with a defensive co-ordinator who has NFL head coaching experience such as Todd Bowles (if the Jets fire him), Chuck Pagano or Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I definitely like the idea of bringing in Todd Bowles as DC. He has consistently gotten the most out of some talent-deficient units and has never had anything close to our duo of edge rushers. Creative and versatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said: I definitely like the idea of bringing in Todd Bowles as DC. He has consistently gotten the most out of some talent-deficient units and has never had anything close to our duo of edge rushers. Creative and versatile. Plus he favors an attack style D that fits our best players’ strengths. Not so crazy about Rex Ryan - he didn’t adjust to the BUF D best players but forced them into his scheme. Never like to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 7 hours ago, carrolljcmc said: I want Eric Bieniemy as HC Why? Because for half of one season he has coached the Andy Reid/Doug Pederson/Brad Childress/Matt Nagy offense that has one of the most elite compliments of skill position talent the league has seen in recent memory? Go back to Boulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 hours ago, paul-mac said: After the season, and I know @AnAngryAmerican won't like me saying this, but it's time to look at the hot co-ordinator route. It's become increasingly clear to me that a QB guru is needed to help young QBs take the next step, as we've seen with Sean McVay and to a lesser extent Matt Nagy. It's all very well to pick up a guy like this to be your co-ordinator but then he just gets poached away. I'd be looking at John DeFilippo or Pete Carmichael Jr to be the head coach and then possibly pair him with a defensive co-ordinator who has NFL head coaching experience such as Todd Bowles (if the Jets fire him), Chuck Pagano or Rex Ryan. You always want the hot coordinator. This is nothing new. How did hiring Gary Kubiak instead of your preferred choice of Dan Quinn work out? We won a Super Bowl while Quinn has had two winning seasons, his most successful one being an obvious aberration with Kyle Shanahan coordinating the offense, and now has the likes of Steve Scarnecchia (he of McSpyGate infamy) on his staff. The bottom line is that if you roll the dice on a hot coordinator you more often than not end up with craps (sorry I just got back from Vegas). Joseph was the young, untested, never-been-a-HC before, coordinator. How's that worked out for us? How did Mac work for us? Elway can't get burned again. He has go for a proven HC; go ahead roll the dice on the next-big-thing type for an OC or DC (of course dumping Wade for Woods was clearly a huge mistake, thanks again, Joe Ellis, you cheap, incompetent pile of s***) but you don't gamble on a HC this time. If John Harbaugh hits the street, you hire him. If you can get Jim Harbaugh, David Shaw, Chris Petersen or even Mike McCarthy, you hire him. This team needs an adult in the locker room, not someone has to learn on the job again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: You always want the hot coordinator. This is nothing new. How did hiring Gary Kubiak instead of your preferred choice of Dan Quinn work out? We won a Super Bowl while Quinn has had two winning seasons, his most successful one being an obvious aberration with Kyle Shanahan coordinating the offense, and now has the likes of Steve Scarnecchia (he of McSpyGate infamy) on his staff. The bottom line is that if you roll the dice on a hot coordinator you more often than not end up with craps (sorry I just got back from Vegas). Joseph was the young, untested, never-been-a-HC before, coordinator. How's that worked out for us? How did Mac work for us? Elway can't get burned again. He has go for a proven HC; go ahead roll the dice on the next-big-thing type for an OC or DC (of course dumping Wade for Woods was clearly a huge mistake, thanks again, Joe Ellis, you cheap, incompetent pile of s***) but you don't gamble on a HC this time. If John Harbaugh hits the street, you hire him. If you can get Jim Harbaugh, David Shaw, Chris Petersen or even Mike McCarthy, you hire him. This team needs an adult in the locker room, not someone has to learn on the job again. You had me until McCarthy. He’s an awful choice. No A-Rod he’s not even a .500 coach. And he’s cost them games with his lack of imagination and stubborn refusal to play the best guys (happening again with Aaron Jones vs. Jamal Williams). The rest of that list though I can get behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: You had me until McCarthy. He’s an awful choice. No A-Rod he’s not even a .500 coach. And he’s cost them games with his lack of imagination and stubborn refusal to play the best guys (happening again with Aaron Jones vs. Jamal Williams). The rest of that list though I can get behind. I'm not going to argue vehemently in favor of McCarthy (or Jason Garrett) but we just cannot afford to risk it again with a one- or two-year coordinator who ridden success of some new-fangeled scheme or some elite crop of talent. It's really not a dissimilar position to your stance on McCarthy, because I am hesitant to hire someone, anyone, coordinator, HC, position coach, who has ridden the coattails of an all-time great QB to a HC, or another HC, job. Again, we can't gamble on another one-year wonder who's never been a HC before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I'm not going to argue vehemently in favor of McCarthy (or Jason Garrett) but we just cannot afford to risk it again with a one- or two-year coordinator who ridden success of some new-fangeled scheme or some elite crop of talent. It's really not a dissimilar position to your stance on McCarthy, because I am hesitant to hire someone, anyone, coordinator, HC, position coach, who has ridden the coattails of an all-time great QB to a HC, or another HC, job. Again, we can't gamble on another one-year wonder who's never been a HC before. Yeah I hear that. But Garrett and McCarthy are awful choices. Garrett has lost the most number of games leading st halftime (something like 21-22 now). That’s awful. I get your point on risk with the 1-year hot OC. Just keep in mind not every established HC is a good choice. The NFL’s biggest problem in HC / OC recruitment is teams tend to recycle uninspired choices. The others you stated are solid choices IMO . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Yeah I hear that. But Garrett and McCarthy are awful choices. Garrett has lost the most number of games leading st halftime (something like 21-22 now). That’s awful. I get your point on risk with the 1-year hot OC. Just keep in mind not every established HC is a good choice. The NFL’s biggest problem in HC / OC recruitment is teams tend to recycle uninspired choices. The others you stated are solid choices IMO . Seriously I do not disagree on your evaluations of McCarthy and Garrett. I wouldn't really like each choice, in fact I would be dissatisfied with both. That being said, even HCs who've failed and made poor decisions in prior jobs are much better-suited to adjust, to learn from those mistakes, to change what they did wrong from their prior job. Arguments can be made that David Shaw and Chris Peterson would also be risks as neither has been a NFL HC before, that Jim Harbaugh couldn't make it work in San Fran as he rubbed too many people the wrong way and that Jim Harbaugh has only one ring and got it with two first-ballot Hall of Famers on his defense, but otherwise hasn't won much. Every coach has their negatives and every hire is a risk, to varying degrees. But, it is a safer move to hire someone who has worn the hat and sat in the chair of NFL HC before than it is to hand the keys to a hot coordinator who is totally untested. The Mike Tomlins and Sean McVays of the world are far and away the exception than they are the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 hours ago, paul-mac said: Vance Joseph is the worst head coach in the history of the Denver Broncos, bar none. Filchock, Malavasi, Speedie................. just about any of 'em prior to Ralston can lay a legitimate claim to that title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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