LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fatgerman said: Hey, pal, I said shoulders! We were manly lumber guys, for God's sake. That sorta thing only happened on lunch breaks in the insulation loft, and I was never a party to such rendezvous. Partly because I was never invited, but mostly because I don't roll that way...I think. Sorry to hear that, I bet they had a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 I came away from today’s game super annoyed with our organizational decision-makers. We have a rookie quarterback who has shown the most promise of any quarterback since this franchise’s inception. He was dropping back and scrambling for his life immediately today. The protection from both tackles was so bad. And when there was a moderate amount of protection on a three-step drop, nobody could get open. Literally no separation from the Pittsburgh defensive backs. Forget anything beyond a three-step drop as far as protection. This is what we’re going to give our rookie quarterback to work with? At least try to make some moves. The organization hinges its success on the development of Mayfield. Forget everything else. We need a GM who is going to put forth the effort to put him in a position to be successful. And we need coaching that is not going to stunt his development. It’s insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, NateDawg said: I came away from today’s game super annoyed with our organizational decision-makers. We have a rookie quarterback who has shown the most promise of any quarterback since this franchise’s inception. He was dropping back and scrambling for his life immediately today. The protection from both tackles was so bad. And when there was a moderate amount of protection on a three-step drop, nobody could get open. Literally no separation from the Pittsburgh defensive backs. Forget anything beyond a three-step drop as far as protection. This is what we’re going to give our rookie quarterback to work with? At least try to make some moves. The organization hinges its success on the development of Mayfield. Forget everything else. We need a GM who is going to put forth the effort to put him in a position to be successful. And we need coaching that is not going to stunt his development. It’s insanity. The issue to some degree is there aren’t a ton of talented players looking for work or teams looking to trade them. Id argue they shouldn’t have moved Gordon and Hyde, but I understand the rationale for doing so I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I’ll just leave this here: Rome wasn’t built in a day. Your house wasn’t built in 18 hours. A car was not built in 32 hours. A tree didn’t fully mature in 13 days. A Hue Jackson is not fired after 36 losses. Oh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: I’ll just leave this here: Rome wasn’t built in a day. Your house wasn’t built in 18 hours. A car was not built in 32 hours. A tree didn’t fully mature in 13 days. A Hue Jackson is not fired after 36 losses. Oh wait One of those is not the same as the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 @Kiwibrown Dunning-Kruger Effect lol... is an interesting phenomena... good stuff... I wish it was that simple...but doesn't explain the real competence in play-calling of Haley and Hue b/c it's one thing to have a good offense and another to have a top 2 or 1st offense in the entire NFL based on DVOA offensive efficiency rating. Those offenses were elite elite... of course, they had good players, but ... it just sucks that coaching on offense and talent of players hasn't been able to come together to produce consistent production despite having well respected and well coordinated offensive minds before their time in Cleveland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mind Character said: @Kiwibrown Dunning-Kruger Effect lol... is an interesting phenomena... good stuff... I wish it was that simple...but doesn't explain the real competence in play-calling of Haley and Hue b/c it's one thing to have a good offense and another to have a top 2 or 1st offense in the entire NFL based on DVOA offensive efficiency rating. Those offenses were elite elite... of course, they had good players, but ... it just sucks that coaching on offense and talent of players hasn't been able to come together to produce consistent production despite having well respected and well coordinated offensive minds before their time in Cleveland... I get your point and your not entirely wrong, but have you honestly seen anything positive from a coaching perspective the last 3 years? I mean, I know the negatives get overstated and that Hue and Todd obviously have been successful before, but what coaching decisions have they made here that make you say “damn, good call” or come away from a game thinking the game plan was very well devised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I get your point and your not entirely wrong, but have you honestly seen anything positive from a coaching perspective the last 3 years? I mean, I know the negatives get overstated and that Hue and Todd obviously have been successful before, but what coaching decisions have they made here that make you say “damn, good call” or come away from a game thinking the game plan was very well devised? It does neither of us any good to rehash old convos about the legitimate terrible things I think Hue has done versus the things that can be attributed to roster building and/or illegitimate criticism in my opinion. I'm really speaking of Haley at this point as the criticism of him is also at a fever pitch. Why is it that a top OC cannot competently coordinate this offense? What are the main factors ranked by matter of importance... It's always interesting to interact with large numbers of humans online and see how it is they think about interesting complexities such as " what are the reasons why does someone who's done a good job before suck now"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mind Character said: It does neither of us any good to rehash old convos about the legitimate terrible things I think Hue has done versus the things that can be attributed to roster building and/or illegitimate criticism in my opinion. I'm really speaking of Haley at this point as the criticism of him is also at a fever pitch. Why is it that a top OC cannot competently coordinate this offense? What are the main factors ranked by matter of importance... It's always interesting to interact with large numbers of humans online and see how it is they think about interesting complexities such as " what are the reasons why does someone who's done a good job before suck now"... How much of Haley’s success in Pitt was the talent though? It’s like crediting Peyton’s OC’s with being offensive geniuses and the like. I think Hue and Haley both are decent coaches, or at least know what they’re doing, but I haven’t anything but an enormous disconnect between what we need to be doing and what we have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: How much of Haley’s success in Pitt was the talent though? That is the million dollar question... And more... how does one separate offensive play-calling genius or elite ability in an OC from the talent of the team. 4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: It’s like crediting Peyton’s OC’s with being offensive geniuses and the like. Facts. It goes the other way interestingly enough as well. Before this year.... is Baker Mayfield's production and excellence because he is special and great or due to Lincoln Riley's offense and Oklahoma's poor defensive opponents. ---- The questions of how to separate the OCs talent from the talent of elite players (Peyton Manning)... and how to separate a player's ability from the scheme and play-calling are the type of questions that NFL decision-makers still struggle with figuring out. It is interesting to ask people about Todd Haley now (I used to about Hue)... just to see how people go about answering that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 @Mind Character So for me it’s about scheme creativity, tailoring your scheme to fit the talent and using the talent provided. With our team, why aren’t we running rpo’s to death? Baker rewrote college record books with them and now it looks like he can’t even audible (if reports are true), which is a whole other kettle of fish as far as coaching goes. We have underutilized Duke, Chubb and DeValve thus far. We have misused/failed to used Njoku as a primary target in the red zone. We mismanaged and shuffled the OL all throughout camp. We’ve failed to help the tackles in pass pro, despite obvious evidence it’s needed. We identified the wrong RB as our starter. We identified the wrong QB in camp. I realize no coach is perfect, but that’s a lot of issues for half a season imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: @Mind Character So for me it’s about scheme creativity, tailoring your scheme to fit the talent and using the talent provided. With our team, why aren’t we running rpo’s to death? Baker rewrote college record books with them and now it looks like he can’t even audible (if reports are true), which is a whole other kettle of fish as far as coaching goes. We have underutilized Duke, Chubb and DeValve thus far. We have misused/failed to used Njoku as a primary target in the red zone. We mismanaged and shuffled the OL all throughout camp. We’ve failed to help the tackles in pass pro, despite obvious evidence it’s needed. We identified the wrong RB as our starter. We identified the wrong QB in camp. I realize no coach is perfect, but that’s a lot of issues for half a season imo. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Could we try Bitonio at LT to see if that helps the pass rush? If not, so be it but lets try something. There are so many things to try, like the pace of the offense, maybe not going with 5 receivers quite as much leave someone back to help block, we've got to get some rhythm on offense and coaching isn't trying to do anything different that I have seen and we don't have the personnel to make what they are trying to do work. So either give up our next two drafts to bring in better talent or the coaching staff needs to spend a minute to figure this out. Or of course, the other alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: @Mind Character So for me it’s about scheme creativity, tailoring your scheme to fit the talent and using the talent provided. With our team, why aren’t we running rpo’s to death? Baker rewrote college record books with them and now it looks like he can’t even audible (if reports are true), which is a whole other kettle of fish as far as coaching goes. We have underutilized Duke, Chubb and DeValve thus far. We have misused/failed to used Njoku as a primary target in the red zone. We mismanaged and shuffled the OL all throughout camp. We’ve failed to help the tackles in pass pro, despite obvious evidence it’s needed. We identified the wrong RB as our starter. We identified the wrong QB in camp. I realize no coach is perfect, but that’s a lot of issues for half a season imo. I'd give this post an electronic football but I'm out. I absolutely agree with a lot of this post about the RPOs, utilization of players, and failing to help our struggling LT/RTs schematically. Those are all really valid points. There is a disconnect. I'd disagree only about identifying the wrong QB, RB, and shuffling the OL parts... I think that when it comes to humans ... a decision can be correct even when the outcome doesn't go well. Specifically, I think it was right to go with Tyrod despite the poor outcome for the reasons that have been discussed in the past (1.) He led a talent deficient offense to the playoffs even in tough weather conditions; 2.) He protected the ball and avoided turn overs, 3.) He allowed our young rookie QB to sit back and not feel the weight of the franchise from day 1. I also think the starting Hyde was not a poor decision as he ran well. Regarding shuffling the of the OL, I believe it was a necessity based on the options of the day... as while Desmond Harrison was injured we had the following options at LT were 1.) Shon Coleman, 2.) Austin Corbett, 3.) Greg Robinson, 4.) Joel Bitonio. We gave all of them a shot and decided that the combination of LT Joel Bitonio and LG Austin Corbett was better than the combination of any of the above LT options (Coleman/Corbett/Robinson) and LG Joel Bitonio. Once LT Desmond Harrison came back from injury and finally played in the final two preseason games ... it was clear that the Harrison-Bitonio combo was the best (Harrison has played well and struggled mightily at times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: the other alternative This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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