How good is Jared Goff?

[RandyMossIsBoss]

3 minutes ago, btfd16 said:

Tom Brady 

Year 1: 3 attempts, 1 completion, 3 yards

Year 2: 15 games (14 started), 63.9%, 2843 yards, 18-12 TD-INT, Super Bowl

Year 3: Full season, 62.1%, 3764 yards, 28-14

Year 4: (I'll put it because he didn't really have a year 1) full season, 60.2%, 3620 yards, 23-12, Super Bowl

Jared Goff

Year 1: Jeff Fisher*** (ugh), 7 games, 54.6%, 1089 yards, 5-7

Year 2: (McBae), 15 games, 62.1%, 3804 yards, 28-7

Year 3: full season, 64.9%, 4688 yards, 32-12, Super Bowl

 

His stats are actually better (I know the game has slightly changed)... No one is saying he is TB in his prime or even TB right now. But it's not as asinine as @tyler735 is making it sound to compare him to early TB.

c'mon bruh, I agree with your point, but comparing their stats, especially bulk ones, is just unfair.

[btfd16]

Just now, RandyMossIsBoss said:

c'mon bruh, I agree with your point, but comparing their stats, especially bulk ones, is just unfair.

I mean what else would you like me to compare hahaha I don't have anything else

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

c'mon bruh, I agree with your point, but comparing their stats, especially bulk ones, is just unfair.

Might as well just say that there's no point in comparing their stats. It's not like comparing efficiency stats is going to make any difference. Reality is that Brady, Brees, P. Manning, etc. weren't the QBs we now know them to be in their first few years in the NFL. That's why I chuckle at people saying that Goff will never be on that level. Who the hell knows. You wouldn't have thought Brees would be on that level by the end of his third year in the NFL either.

[tyler735]

7 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

You've pretty much categorized Thomas, Kamara, and Brees on the uppermost tier at each position,

Okay where would you rank

Brees

Kamara

Thomas

I'm guessing my rankings are actually very close to the general consensus on this forum with Kamara being slightly higher than some. Then again I also haven't compared Kamara to Barry Sanders which would be the equivalent to statements made in regards to Goff/Brady

7 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

compensating for ranking them as of the best. Not absurd claims per say, but you fanatically hype your guys until a pattern forms. And you like to degrade other players to elevate your own. You hate on Goff and Gurley pretty hard in game day threads and seem to have it out for the Rams. 

Yeah because I find them to be vastly overrated by Rams fans on here. It's one thing to rate Kamara 2-3 spots higher than the majority, it's quite another to compare Goff to the GOAT. I've stated numerous times that I've had Gurley in my top 2 to top 3 RB's. That said, much like your vendetta against Michael Thomas in regards to his system playing a role in his production, I've liked to point out the Rams system playing a significant role in Gurley's production

[btfd16]

9 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Okay where would you rank

Brees

Kamara

Thomas

I'm guessing my rankings are actually very close to the general consensus on this forum with Kamara being slightly higher than some. Then again I also haven't compared Kamara to Barry Sanders which would be the equivalent to statements made in regards to Goff/Brady

Yeah because I find them to be vastly overrated by Rams fans on here. It's one thing to rate Kamara 2-3 spots higher than the majority, it's quite another to compare Goff to the GOAT. I've stated numerous times that I've had Gurley in my top 2 to top 3 RB's. That said, much like your vendetta against Michael Thomas in regards to his system playing a role in his production, I've liked to point out the Rams system playing a significant role in Gurley's production

My lord man. No one is comparing him to when he was the GOAT or even what he is now. We know Brady is the GOAT. We know he is a better QB today. They were saying they started off their careers similarly. That is not a stretch. 

[SkippyX]

16 minutes ago, Danger said:

Oh come on, lets not say Matt Ryan is lacking in Weapons. He's had one of the best supporting casts for YEARS now.

 

I completely forgot that Tony Gonzalez spent his last 5 years with Ryan. (09-13)  

• I greatly undervalued 2012 and 2014 before I did the research

 

I would agree with you on some of Ryan's seasons: (and I am not trying to say he has had bad weapons in any season)

Ryan's rookie year (2008) he had the 1st team all-pro RB in Michael Turner and Roddy White was a stud #1 WR

• Turner missed 5 games in 2009
• He was great again in 2010 and 2011

Ryan's 2012 weapons were as good as anyone

• Gonzo, Julio, Roddy White still at the top of his game, and Harry Douglas as a 3rd WR/4th target
  • Julio was not 'best WR in football' level yet but he was still very good
• Turner was wearing down but still scored 11 TDs

  In 2013 Julio missed 11 games

• The '13 - '14 starting RB was the ghost of Steven Jackson (his corpse went to New England in 2015)

In 2014 they lost Gonzalez but added Devin Hester as a dangerous 4th WR

• Julio became the beast that he still is today (about 1600 yards per year over 5 years)

  In 2015 Freeman came on but Roddy White was fading. Hester and Douglas were gone.

 

In 2016 Freeman/Coleman together put up Gurley numbers in rushing, yards per rush, yards from scrimmage, and TDs

• Gabriel was a solid deep threat at #3 WR
  • Sanu was able to be part of the mix instead of heavily relied on

2017 was a weird Super Bowl hangover / 1st place schedule / bad mojo year.

• They still made the playoffs but were a couple plays from 8-8
• You can decide how much of that is on Ryan under-performing vs the whole team
  • Gabriel did almost nothing and Sanu is always Sanu (mediocre #2, very good #3)
  • I think Ryan threw the butt-interception vs New Orleans that season

2018 he lost Freeman (Coleman was pretty good) but Julio/Ridley/Sanu were a deadly trio

• 3336 yards and 22 TDs between the 3 of them

 

Odd how '12, '14, '16, and '18 were Ryan's best seasons.

 

Goff is only in year 3 but he had crap weapons in year 1 and great weapons in 2 and 3.

• It would not be surprising if year 2 and 3 wind up being 2 of Goff's best 5 or 6 seasons.

The good news is that Woods, Cupp, Gurley and Cooks are all under control until 2020

• Although Cooks, Gurley, and Goff could be about a 63 million dollar cap hit as a trio in 2020.
• Woods may also decide that he is over-performing his 6.8 a year contract at some point

[SmittyBacall]

6 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

That said, much like your vendetta against Michael Thomas in regards to his system playing a role in his production

I don't have a vendetta, I just don't think he's as good as his numbers or his hype - and I say that objectively speaking. The difference being I have no bias against the Saints, and you obviously aren't fond of the Rams. Not every Saints player has to be the best. It gets old. 

14 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I've liked to point out the Rams system playing a significant role in Gurley's production

Then why don't you direct this argument objectively at your own team? Perhaps Brees, Kamara, and Thomas all benefit from each other and the system they play?

[tyler735]

 

24 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I don't have a vendetta, I just don't think he's as good as his numbers or his hype - and I say that objectively speaking. The difference being I have no bias against the Saints, and you obviously aren't fond of the Rams. Not every Saints player has to be the best. It gets old. 

You sure seem to be in Saints related threads quite a bit, so the claims you are making in regards to me talking about Rams players could be surely made against you. Maybe you're not as objective as you think you are.

You literally didn't look at my rankings then if none of them are ranked "the best".

Quote

Then why don't you direct this argument objectively at your own team? Perhaps Brees, Kamara, and Thomas all benefit from each other and the system they play?

I have done so, and acknowledged the Saints have a great system as well. That said plugging in a guy like CJ Anderson has proven some of the lengthy posts I've made in regards to how forgiving the Rams system has been for RB's.

[SmittyBacall]

3 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

You sure seem to be in Saints related threads quite a bit, so the claims you are making in regards to me talking about Rams players could be surely made against you. Maybe you're not as objective as you think you are.

Whatever you say, man. But I think you know that isn't true.

3 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

You literally didn't look at my rankings then if none of them are ranked "the best".

Among the best*.

Anyway, let's not derail this thread any further.

[stl4life07]

43 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Might as well just say that there's no point in comparing their stats. It's not like comparing efficiency stats is going to make any difference. Reality is that Brady, Brees, P. Manning, etc. weren't the QBs we now know them to be in their first few years in the NFL. That's why I chuckle at people saying that Goff will never be on that level. Who the hell knows. You wouldn't have thought Brees would be on that level by the end of his third year in the NFL either.

I agree. People forget that the main reason the Chargers traded for Rivers because they didnt think Brees would be the long term answer. Brees first two seasons as a starter he went 8-8 then 2-9. The Chargers traded for Rivers the following season and thats when Brees broke out and had a Pro Bowl year and led the Chargers to the playoffs. The 2005 season Brees had another solid season but the Chargers went 9-7 barely missed the playoffs and Brees hurt his shoulder in his contract season. That made the decision easy to move on from him and turn it over to the 2nd year QB Rivers who was entering his 3rd year in 2006 without really starting any regular season games to become the franchise QB. So my point is, Brees wasnt great for the first 2yrs of his starting QB career and the Chargers didnt think he would be the guy moving forward so they went and drafted Brees replacement because they was getting ready to move on if Brees didnt show any signs of being good. 

[tyler735]

10 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Whatever you say, man. But I think you know that isn't true.

Not at this point

10 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Among the best*.

Are those three not considered by many to be among the best???

10 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Anyway, let's not derail this thread any further.

Agreed 

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, Kay z said:

How so

You have an interesting amount of chromosomes.

[JonStark]

11 hours ago, Danger said:

Andrew Luck's season is super overrated. It's good yeah, but mostly bulk stats over anything else.

And that's the worst thing fantasy football has done to football fans. They make it impossible to develop an opinion based off of a player's performance on the football field without taking into account the stats the put up. Obviously they matter, but you need to watch a player enough to accurately form an opinion on them. 

For the record, I feel like Goff is top 5-10 right now (behind Mahomes), which is pretty darn good for his 3rd year especially considering the handicap of Jeff Fisher he had to start off his career as a rookie. 

[BStanRamFan]

15 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Yep. Over Luck. I don't think that's very controversial.

I do. I can't put Goff over luck yet. Luck has done more with less since the beginning of his career. He is a once in a generation talent to me and I think with the amount of cap space/picks the Colts have next year they will be the dominant team in the AFC for the 5-7 years barring injury to Luck.

[jrry32]

31 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I do. I can't put Goff over luck yet. Luck has done more with less since the beginning of his career. He is a once in a generation talent to me and I think with the amount of cap space/picks the Colts have next year they will be the dominant team in the AFC for the 5-7 years barring injury to Luck.

Looks like Luck's game is still inflated based on pre-draft hype. He isn't a once in a generation talent, and since he came back from his injury, his previously average arm lost zip. He's still a smart QB and a good athlete, but his arm talent at this point is nothing special. Goff is the better QB.