Week 13 GDT: Do we really have to go to Seattle?

[StevenK]

Awww snap, this might be more interesting of a match up, @J-ALL-DAY vs @Chrissooner49er, who said it right?! lol

I got my bet on J since he's got Forge in his corner with that Masters in English!  

[rudyZ]

19 hours ago, Forge said:

Unless of course the manner you are using it is to say that they are the "core" of a bigger entity. Since he didn't name every receiver on the team, this could easily have been the meaning. The guys he named are the core of a corps. 

Example: Montana and rice helped make up the "core" of multiple super bowl winning teams. 

 

I was about to say that. I'm pretty sure J, in all his wisdom, meant the core of the corps.

Might I add that the word "Corps" comes from the french "corps", which means body. You're welcome. You didn't ask, but I, too, can be a know-it-all!

[rudyZ]

13 hours ago, StevenK said:

Awww snap, this might be more interesting of a match up, @J-ALL-DAY vs @Chrissooner49er, who said it right?! lol

I got my bet on J since he's got Forge in his corner with that Masters in English!  

Rap battle?

[Chrissooner49er]

Rap battle is a no go, not a fan of that.....at all.

Nope, not an English major, but I grew up the son of an English major. She corrected my grammar ALL THE TIME. Now it is in my blood. I blame that wonderful woman. Also, wrote numerous papers as a History major in college...had a 3.3 GPA, thank you very much. 

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Rap battle is a no go, not a fan of that.....at all.

Nope, not an English major, but I grew up the son of an English major. She corrected my grammar ALL THE TIME. Now it is in my blood. I blame that wonderful woman. Also, wrote numerous papers as a History major in college...had a 3.3 GPA, thank you very much. 

 

3.3 GPA? Pssh, graduated with a 3.4 GPA!!!!!!

So since I graduated with a higher GPA and have an English major agreeing with me, looks like I was right all along. "WR core" works just fine in that sentence. 

[y2lamanaki]

2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

3.3 GPA? Pssh, graduated with a 3.4 GPA!!!!!!

So since I graduated with a higher GPA and have an English major agreeing with me, looks like I was right all along. "WR core" works just fine in that sentence. 

Well I finished my Master's with a 4.0 GPA, and I'm siding with Chris on this one. Using context clues:

-J named 6 players: Goodwin, Pettis, Kittle, McKinnon, Breida, and Juzczyk. 

-Only 5 players can be receivers on any one play. 

-A "core" receiving group cannot be reasonably expected to consist of more than the number of players who could be available on any given play. A receiving "corps" absolutely could.

---

Now, this is for @rudyZ, who would otherwise almost certainly be the one to point out that Juszczyk is an emergency QB, and therefore that there is a scenario where all six could be on the field at the same time. This is accurate, however in this scenario, one of the six would still qualify as a passer, and only five can be receivers. Even in every trick scenario Shanahan could possibly devise, there can legally be only one forward pass, meaning one of the six skill position players would always qualify as the quarterback. 

So, because the "receiving core" cannot reasonably include more players than could receive the ball at any one time, "receiving corps" is the correct usage. Had J simply refrained from including the injured McKinnon, we could never truly know.

(Also, this is a much more fun use of this particular Gameday thread)

[StevenK]

So it’s still tied! Lol 

Y2 has sided with Chris and Forge is sided with J! 

Hmmm 🧐

[John232]

Stop talking about Masters. I need to a safe place while I procrastinate on apps. 

[JIllg]

Bleh. My 3.8 in a software engineering master's is not particularly useful for this debate.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nfl-stats-data-analytics-2018

Can we talk about how the offense is pretty average in terms of explosiveness and efficiency in spite of marginal talent, except that it is abysmal inside the ten and has terrible field position due to the defense's ineptness at providing anything resembling field position? I'd be on that. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Well I finished my Master's with a 4.0 GPA, and I'm siding with Chris on this one. Using context clues:

-J named 6 players: Goodwin, Pettis, Kittle, McKinnon, Breida, and Juzczyk. 

-Only 5 players can be receivers on any one play. 

-A "core" receiving group cannot be reasonably expected to consist of more than the number of players who could be available on any given play. A receiving "corps" absolutely could.

---

Now, this is for @rudyZ, who would otherwise almost certainly be the one to point out that Juszczyk is an emergency QB, and therefore that there is a scenario where all six could be on the field at the same time. This is accurate, however in this scenario, one of the six would still qualify as a passer, and only five can be receivers. Even in every trick scenario Shanahan could possibly devise, there can legally be only one forward pass, meaning one of the six skill position players would always qualify as the quarterback. 

So, because the "receiving core" cannot reasonably include more players than could receive the ball at any one time, "receiving corps" is the correct usage. Had J simply refrained from including the injured McKinnon, we could never truly know.

(Also, this is a much more fun use of this particular Gameday thread)

I'm going to let @Forge handle this as I deal with numbers and not words on a daily basis lol. 

1 hour ago, JIllg said:

Bleh. My 3.8 in a software engineering master's is not particularly useful for this debate.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nfl-stats-data-analytics-2018

Can we talk about how the offense is pretty average in terms of explosiveness and efficiency in spite of marginal talent, except that it is abysmal inside the ten and has terrible field position due to the defense's ineptness at providing anything resembling field position? I'd be on that. 

I think for the RZ issues we don't really have a power game as Jeff Garcia mentioned last week and Shanny getting too cute in that area of the field. Why does he continue calling pitch plays to the backs that never seem to go anywhere? And I honestly don't think we feature Kittle enough in the RZ. 

[Forge]

4 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Well I finished my Master's with a 4.0 GPA, and I'm siding with Chris on this one. Using context clues:

-J named 6 players: Goodwin, Pettis, Kittle, McKinnon, Breida, and Juzczyk. 

-Only 5 players can be receivers on any one play. 

-A "core" receiving group cannot be reasonably expected to consist of more than the number of players who could be available on any given play. A receiving "corps" absolutely could.

I would argue that the bolded is far too micro thinking. A  team is not made up of any single individual play. Whether or not they all line up together on every play is inconsequential.  If all of those guys are playing 40% of the snaps or above for a season, I would contend that they absolutely can be considered a "core" of the team, even though they may not all line up together on any given play. Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick were never on the field at the same time so far as I know in 2012, however I would consider both of them to be part of the "core" of that 2012 team, as the season could have been drastically different without either one of them included. I would say that both Foles and Wentz were part of the Eagles core last year that won the super bowl. In neither situation would I expect it to be "reasonable" that they are on the field at the same time. Matt breida currently only played about 41% of the offensive snaps for the 49ers this year, so clearly he's not in there on every play, but he's absolutely a core member of this particular team. So I would say that looking at it from a play by play perspective is simply too narrow. 

Now, you're probably going to counter back, "yes, but they are available" to be in on the play at any given time with regards to the quarterbacks. And that is true. After all, we saw it just this year with the Ravens having both Flacco and Jackson on the field at the same time for various plays. I would counter that with that all six of those players could theoretically be on the field at the same time if you had Kittle in at tackle. After all, Levine Toilolo played tackle for the falcons on a few occasions despite the fact that he is a tight end. So technically, all six could be available on any given play. 

[y2lamanaki]

55 minutes ago, Forge said:

I would argue that the bolded is far too micro thinking. A  team is not made up of any single individual play. Whether or not they all line up together on every play is inconsequential.  If all of those guys are playing 40% of the snaps or above for a season, I would contend that they absolutely can be considered a "core" of the team, even though they may not all line up together on any given play. Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick were never on the field at the same time so far as I know in 2012, however I would consider both of them to be part of the "core" of that 2012 team, as the season could have been drastically different without either one of them included. I would say that both Foles and Wentz were part of the Eagles core last year that won the super bowl. In neither situation would I expect it to be "reasonable" that they are on the field at the same time. Matt breida currently only played about 41% of the offensive snaps for the 49ers this year, so clearly he's not in there on every play, but he's absolutely a core member of this particular team. So I would say that looking at it from a play by play perspective is simply too narrow. 

Now, you're probably going to counter back, "yes, but they are available" to be in on the play at any given time with regards to the quarterbacks. And that is true. After all, we saw it just this year with the Ravens having both Flacco and Jackson on the field at the same time for various plays. I would counter that with that all six of those players could theoretically be on the field at the same time if you had Kittle in at tackle. After all, Levine Toilolo played tackle for the falcons on a few occasions despite the fact that he is a tight end. So technically, all six could be available on any given play. 

But he didn't say they would make up the core of the team. He said they would make a good receiving core. Whether Kittle played Tackle on a play is irrelevant as he wouldn't be a receiver. And on a tackle eligible play, one of the other players would be ineligible. 

As far as playing 40% of snaps go, one, that seems like an arbitrary number, and two, all of the starting offensive linemen played more than 40% of snaps, but they wouldn't be part of a "receiving core." One would suggest it should be a percentage of passing plays, but that would be just about mathematically impossible for six players to hit. One, at minimum, would always be off the field, and other receivers (Taylor, Bourne, James) would eat into those numbers. And for a team - we have 14 defensive players and 12 offensive players have played 40% of snaps. Certainly the entire starting lineups can't be the "core."

Personally, the "core" of the 2012 team was Staley, Vernon, Gore, Justin, Bowman, Aldon, and Willis. There were plenty of other necessary players and very important ones at that, but those were the core players. 

Core, as we've been using it:

noun:   a small group of indispensable persons or things

By nature then, neither Alex nor Kaepernick could be considered indispensable to that team as they both played and won games for the team. One could intelligently argue that either player was the better choice.

Losing the other players mentioned would have been disastrous. 

Garoppolo is a core player. Mullens and Beathard make up our QB corps.

[y2lamanaki]

3 hours ago, JIllg said:

Bleh. My 3.8 in a software engineering master's is not particularly useful for this debate.

Why not? My degree is in Integrated Marketing Communications. It's not like it's relevant. It's why I carefully omitted it from my initial post.

I'm good at marketing :-)

[GW21]

34 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

noun:   a small group of indispensable persons or things

By nature then, neither Alex nor Kaepernick could be considered indispensable to that team as they both played and won games for the team. One could intelligently argue that either player was the better choice.

Losing the other players mentioned would have been disastrous. 

Garoppolo is a core player. Mullens and Beathard make up our QB corps.

https://giphy.com/gifs/justin-g-run-away-fast-3o7ZetIsjtbkgNE1I4

[Ataal]

As far as I'm concerned, you all have a Master's in English compared to the posts I see on my Facebook feed.  My eyes twitch constantly when reading those posts.

As for the Seattle games this year, can't we just give them the wins now?  I'm kind of running out of things to look forward to. 

Jimmy!  Crap, that was unfortunate.

Let's see what CJ has after an offseason....nope. 

Mullens?  Just as bad, but in different ways. 

Watch Sherman not get targeted all game?  Meh. 

The one or two big plays by Breida and/or Kittle?  That's literally what I'm down to right now over the course of a 3 hour game.   **sigh**