What do you think of Kyle Shanahan so far?

[buno67]

Heard he is pretty sweet at Microsoft power point 

[rocky_rams]

6 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

I think he's a better HC than Sean McVay. He just has had bad luck with injuries. Once Jimmy G comes back the NFC West is going to be the most fun division to watch.

I respect your opinion but I’m curious, why do you think Shanahan is a better coach than McVay?

[NJerseypaint]

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Goff and Gurley weren't being hyped up as elite pieces when McVay joined. Here's what each guy inherited:

McVay - LAR

QB: Jared Goff

HB: Todd Gurley

WR: Kenny Britt

WR: Brian Quick

WR: Tavon Austin

TE: Lance Kendricks

LT: Greg Robinson

LG: Rodger Saffold

C: Tim Barnes

RG: Cody Wichmann

RT: Rob Havenstein

No First Round Pick (traded for Goff)

Shanahan - SF

QB: Colin Kaepernick

HB: Carlos Hyde

WR: Jeremy Kerley

WR: Quinton Patton

WR: Torrey Smith

TE: Vance McDonald

LT: Joe Staley

LG: Zane Beadles

C: Daniel Kilgore

RG: Joshua Garnett

RT: Trent Brown

#3 overall pick

We now know that Goff and Gurley are superstars, but both were coming off terrible seasons when McVay took over. His coaching and scheme have at least partially helped them become the players they are today. Further, Kromer's coaching helped Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein, and Rodger Saffold all play quality or better football after struggling in 2016.

Meanwhile, Carlos Hyde was coming off a pretty good season. The 49ers had the ability to draft either Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes at #3. They had a TE in Vance McDonald who has emerged as a good TE this year. They had book-end OTs.

Say what you will but McVay elevated the useful talent on the Rams and drafted/signed/traded for a lot of offensive talent in a short period of time. We signed Robert Woods to a reasonable contract, we traded for Sammy and Cooks, we drafted Kupp, Reynolds, and Everett, we plucked Blythe off waivers, we spent a bunch of money on Whitworth, we signed Sullivan for nothing, and we cut loose a lot of deadweight.

Yes, Jimmy being out is a big part of your problems, but you guys started 1-2 even with Jimmy. Plus, you could have Mahomes or Watson right now and chose otherwise. Shanahan walked into a situation where he could choose his QB. We'll see if Jimmy was the right choice. But part of your lack of talent when compared to the Rams is that y'all have made worse choices than us. And frankly, Shanahan hasn't done as good of a job maximizing the talent he had originally.

I think you're being disingenuous for a couple of reasons.

1. I said Donald and Gurley, and regardless of production no one didn't think Gurley wasn't an elite talent or even worse Hyde > Gurley.

2. Why are we attributing drafts and FA pickups to HCs and totally ignoring that both teams have GMs?

3. Kaep wasn't going to be on the roster in 2017 and I'm sure it was something KS had no say in.

I'd say KS has made great use of his team's talent considering once he got a QB he went 6-2, and was only blown out by KC & LAR so far this year.

4 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

I respect your opinion but I’m curious, why do you think Shanahan is a better coach than McVay?

I find it incredible he can still open up running lanes and scheme receivers open for easy completions regardless who is at QB or RB. It's a great "next man up" type offense. The 49ers really have no business staying in games, let alone winning them, with a 3rd string QB and a hobbled second-string RB (not a knock on Breida by the way, I know he's a good runner). I think if KS had the level of talent that McVay has, defenses wouldn't be able to stop him.

[Wyld Stallyns]

He’s got Chris Simms initials tattoed on his ankle so things could be worse, right? 

He’s shown in the past that he can make his system work with the right guys but unfortunately outside of Kirk Cousins and year 2 Matt Ryan those guys have actually been Brian Hoyer; and on a smaller scale, Nick Mullins. 

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I think you're being disingenuous for a couple of reasons.

1. I said Donald and Gurley, and regardless of production no one didn't think Gurley wasn't an elite talent or even worse Hyde > Gurley.

2. Why are we attributing drafts and FA pickups to HCs and totally ignoring that both teams have GMs?

3. Kaep wasn't going to be on the roster in 2017 and I'm sure it was something KS had no say in.

I don't think I am being disingenuous. The Rams certainly had more defensive talent, but the Rams aren't winning games this year because of defense (except for the Broncos game). Gurley was certainly an elite talent, but he was coming off a terrible year where many were doubting him. The 49ers have an effective running game, so it probably isn't that big of a deal to focus on it.

I can't speak for the 49ers, but Snead and McVay work together. Snead deserves a lot of credit, and I've always thought highly of him. However, I have a hard time believing that McVay wasn't intimately involved in the offensive decisions we made. So far, they're looking awfully brilliant. Had McVay ended up in SF, I absolutely believe that the 49ers would have ended up with players like Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp, Brandin Cooks, etc. Maybe John Lynch makes his decisions independent of Kyle, but frankly, y'all missed a lot of opportunities to add talent to your offense.

I never discussed Kaep. He's only there because he started in 2016. Y'all had the opportunity to draft Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson.

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I'd say KS has made great use of his team's talent considering once he got a QB he went 6-2, and was only blown out by KC & LAR so far this year.

McVay inherited a 4-12 team. He's 21-6 as a HC. Shanahan inherited a 2-14 team. He's 8-19 as a HC. At some point, it needs to translate into actually winning games. And availability is everything for QBs. 

Quote

I find it incredible he can still open up running lanes and scheme receivers open for easy completions regardless who is at QB or RB. It's a great "next man up" type offense. The 49ers really have no business staying in games, let alone winning them, with a 3rd string QB and a hobbled second-string RB (not a knock on Breida by the way, I know he's a good runner). I think if KS had the level of talent that McVay has, defenses wouldn't be able to stop him.

But being a great HC is more than just being an amazing offensive mind. Nobody disputes that Shanahan and McVay are amazing offensive minds. I would certainly dispute your characterization of Shanahan as the better offensive mind, but both are among the elites in the NFL. However, Shanahan hasn't shown the same sort of ability to build a roster/offense that McVay has. Again, I don't know how much say Shanahan has, but I would be surprised if he didn't have significant sway over the offensive personnel. McVay didn't inherit the level of talent we have. He coached some of it up and built the rest of it. You seem to want to ignore the aspects of coaching that aren't just being an elite offensive coordinator.

[CKSteeler]

Kyle Shanahan has had my affection ever since he convinced the Browns to fire him mid-season with a power point display. There's a uniqueness there that gets me to overlook the nepotism involved in his rise to NFL fame. So I wish him well.

[brownie man]

SF please fire him so the Browns can bring him in to be our HC 

PLEASE

[jjab360]

He needs a GM other than John Lynch, first of all. They've made some questionable big moves and the talent acquisition has been lacking. Who have they drafted the last two years that will make a long term impact outside of George Kittle? Jimmy G will go down as one of the biggest disappointments in NFL history. He's an average QB, at best, compensated as one of the best based on a fluke winning streak that didn't mean anything. He's not what the hype was. That Jerick Mckinnon signing with all the RB talent in this last draft is just a "huh?" move.

 

Outside of the talent acquisition, though, I just don't know if he's a leader of men. To hear all of his former players tell it, he's pretty much a micromanaging, egotistical pain that they had to put up with because they knew he was going to put them in a position to win. We'll see how long players put up with it when they're not winning...

[NJerseypaint]

11 hours ago, jrry32 said:

The Rams certainly had more defensive talent, but the Rams aren't winning games this year because of defense (except for the Broncos game).

You seem to want to ignore the aspects of coaching that aren't just being an elite offensive coordinator.

I just want to end on this note: The fact that the 49ers defense is performing better this year than the Rams should show that KS is more than just an elite offensive coordinator. You'd expect a team starting CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens to frequently go three and out or turn the ball over; therefore gassing their defense and giving opponents short fields. They should be much worse than the Rams defense because they have less talent on both sides of the ball, but they don't. Unlike his offensive talent, McVay has performed poorly in getting production from his defensive talent. Shanny has shown an aptitude for both.

I can't argue against any of your other points because I have zero knowledge on how much of the roster is due to Shanny's or Lynch's decisions, and same with Rams' organization.

Also, I'm not a 49ers fan - I'm a Jets fan - so I have no dog in this fight. I'm a big fan of both McVay and KS, but I've been more impressed by KS.

[jrry32]

53 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I just want to end on this note: The fact that the 49ers defense is performing better this year than the Rams should show that KS is more than just an elite offensive coordinator. You'd expect a team starting CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens to frequently go three and out or turn the ball over; therefore gassing their defense and giving opponents short fields. They should be much worse than the Rams defense because they have less talent on both sides of the ball, but they don't. Unlike his offensive talent, McVay has performed poorly in getting production from his defensive talent. Shanny has shown an aptitude for both.

I can't argue against any of your other points because I have zero knowledge on how much of the roster is due to Shanny's or Lynch's decisions, and same with Rams' organization.

Also, I'm not a 49ers fan - I'm a Jets fan - so I have no dog in this fight. I'm a big fan of both McVay and KS, but I've been more impressed by KS.

Uh, what? If Shanny had shown an aptitude for both, SF wouldn't be 8-19 with him as a HC. You are basically discounting performance unless it supports your preconceived notions.

[nugpimpen]

I think he will fine. I'd be MUCH more worried about Lynch. Last years draft looks horrific at this point. 

[NJerseypaint]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Uh, what? If Shanny had shown an aptitude for both, SF wouldn't be 8-19 with him as a HC. You are basically discounting performance unless it supports your preconceived notions.

I'm not discounting performance at all. I'm just not using wins and losses as the only determinant of performance. If you really wanted to compare apples to apples, you'd take what KS was able to achieve with a Jimmy G and compare that to McVay with Goff. You want to bunch his results with Hoyer & Hyde and Beathard/Mullens & Breida as if they are comparable to McVay operating with Goff & Gurley. They aren't. You're criticizing KS for losing fights when forced to fight with one-hand and asking, "Why can't he produce like McVay?" who's fighting with three hands.

I'm not gonna knock McVay for having more talent and would certainly praise him if he's the mastermind behind all those acquisitions, but frankly that's the GM's job in most organizations. The HC is there to turn talent into production, and considering the talent KS has he's produced well above the norm - it just hasn't translated to wins.

[Rrrrrrrams]

most overrated hc in the nfl.

he will be fired after next season.

can't beat the cardinals, losing after a 10 point lead to the giants.

the rams hired mcvay without an interview with him.

chargers hired lynn without talking to him.

he and lynch bombed both drafts.

[El Ramster]

Garbage. Like the squad he has. 

[jrry32]

46 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I'm not discounting performance at all. I'm just not using wins and losses as the only determinant of performance. If you really wanted to compare apples to apples, you'd take what KS was able to achieve with a Jimmy G and compare that to McVay with Goff. You want to bunch his results with Hoyer & Hyde and Beathard/Mullens & Breida as if they are comparable to McVay operating with Goff & Gurley. They aren't. You're criticizing KS for losing fights when forced to fight with one-hand and asking, "Why can't he produce like McVay?" who's fighting with three hands.

1. You're not using any part of performance unless it favors Shanahan. For example, as underwhelming as the Rams D has been, the Rams have still allowed less PPG. The Rams D was actually a good unit last year. The 49ers D was not. So any claim that Shanahan has shown "aptitude" for both sides of the ball while McVay hasn't seems quite strained.

2. KS chose Hoyer/Beathard and Breida/McKinnon as his guys.

3. Shanahan and Jimmy are 6-2. McVay and Goff are 21-5. McVay and Goff come out on top.

46 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I'm not gonna knock McVay for having more talent and would certainly praise him if he's the mastermind behind all those acquisitions, but frankly that's the GM's job in most organizations. The HC is there to turn talent into production, and considering the talent KS has he's produced well above the norm - it just hasn't translated to wins.

I have a hard time believing, based on Shanahan's past, that he doesn't have significant input (if not final say) over offensive personnel. IMO, the personnel issues in SF are as much KS as Lynch.